why is yer team being gutted?

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by DJPoopypants, Jan 7, 2003.

  1. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Pardon a dumb metrofan, but what gives? You've now lost a lot, and did you really make out well?

    I welcome any crazy conspiracy theories, but can anyone share some inside dirt?
     
  2. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    We had too many good players.


    Really.
     
  3. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    I kinda buy that - I've always admired (if not really liked) the Fire for their players and what they've done even with injuries and callups.

    But really - all I can think of is salraycap, or rebuilding.

    But if you could afford everyone last year, what has changed? Incentive based contracts can't be the issue with Wolff and Armas ou injured so much. And Dema and Nowak didn;t exactly become household names like other players did.

    Is an influx of foreign talent on the way?
     
  4. alf

    alf Member+

    Jun 29, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    With young American players like DaMarcus Beasley and Josh Wolff and Carlos Bocanegra performing well, along with Thornton, Armas, Marsch, Razov, the Fire were forced to move players due to the salary cap. The young players all have had significant increases meaning that Razov and Wolff would be making the maximum this year along with Nowak and Armas and we had a certain Bulgarian making near max.
     
  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chris Armas' salary didn't count when he was on Injured Reserve, presumably... and when a max salary player comes back something has to give.
     
  6. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    I have another question along these lines......

    Why trade Josh Wolff, if Novak got you all under the cap? Not that the #3 pick is anything bad, I just think that I would rather have had Wolff, in my mind. Was he forcing the issue to be traded because of the plastic grass?
     
  7. JeffGMc

    JeffGMc Member

    Oct 14, 2000
    New York City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The Nowak and Wolff trade got us under the cap. Remember, they both went through on Friday, but the Wolff move wasn't announced until this week.
     
  8. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what I would like to know is why if the trade was done last friday why they had to wait until tuesday to announce it.It was the worst kept secret in the MLS.
     
  9. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    actually, it did count
     
  10. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    because it's pretty hard to keep a secret on a trade that has happened

    the same thing happens in other sports all the time, you wind up getting peter gammons or chris berman or someone else on sportscenter saying what the trade will be

    instead, we find out in other ways, and a bit faster

    it's not a big deal really




    and everyone remember, we are $1 under the cap... that means something else *has* to happen... be it hristo or not (or him and more)
     
  11. JeffGMc

    JeffGMc Member

    Oct 14, 2000
    New York City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It might have been, but until officially announced, nobody really knew. Sometimes these things can't be announced because they can't get a hold of a player or an agent or they're finalizing details. Would you want to read about your trade before you had signed anything?
     
  12. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Here is my understanding is a non-Fire fanatic (but admirer of the organization and club) of why the "fire sale."

    1. The cap. Armas DID count on the cap last year. As did Whitfield. There is no such thing as "injured reserve" ala NFL or NBA. Chicago was substantially over the cap. Somewhere I had the figure of $500K over the cap. It appears I was wrong and the number may have actually been higher.

    Given the salaries of Wolff, Nowak and Kovalenko (and adding only a 2003 pick, a conditional 2004 pick and a P-40 player), Chicago subtracted over $630K in cap obligations for 2002. Those moves, according to GM Peter Wilt, put the Fire approximately $1 under the salary cap.

    So how could the team be over the cap? For starters, players like Wolff got increases during the season. Other players had automatic escalators built into their contracts or (guys like Bocanegra) had healthy raises due. The team added Rodrigo Faria ($70K in 2002 but a decent increase in 2003). Plus, Chicago traded for cap space in 2002 with Dallas. I may be wrong on this point but I seem to recall a cap discussion with DC's TD Dave Kasper about this--that you only acquired the space temporarily (for the season) and then it came off the next year's cap. Could be wrong about that, but suffice it to say, Chicago had several players (Razov, Wolff, Nowak, Armas, Stoichkov) all at the max for 2003. Do the math for a cap of $1.7 and you see it's not workable.

    So why didn't Chicago make interim steps to deal with this in 2002? While that might be a convenient cry to make, the reality is that the Fire was dealt an incredibly tough hand. In January 2002, Bob Bradley could look at his team and see 8 possible players (Wolff, Razov, Armas, Marsch, Brown, Bocanegra, Beasley, Thornton) that could be going to Korea. In the end, it was only 2. But he had to build his team with the knowledge that he might lose up to 8 players (unlikely but possible. Most of us wouldn't have been shocked if there had been 6). And unlike the "98 cup, b/c of budget purposes, teams didn't get roster protection for players in the WC. Chicago would have had to "play on" with a roster of 15 players if they'd had 8 called up. So players like Nowak and Stoichkov had to be retained in 2002.
     
  13. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    What is reason #2?
     
  14. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Redundant. :D

    If you look at the players we still have, it's not like were going to be terrible.
     
  15. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    there could be 1,000 reasons why. and we'll probably never know what the real one was.
     
  16. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Dude...trust "the plan"!
     
    xtomx, SixKick and Jiggly_333 repped this.
  17. Jiggly_333

    Jiggly_333 Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 8, 2015
    Corner of Bedlam and Squalor (It's that way ->)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I heard this from the guy in New York:
    “We have our plan, we are disciplined against our plan, we remain committed to that plan, and feel that when we’re finished, we will be satisfied. I know that fans at times can be impatient but I also think generally that this time of year is difficult to conclude transactions because of the nature of the holidays and the impending opening of transfer windows throughout Europe.”
     
    bunge repped this.
  18. xtomx

    xtomx Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    November 26, 2017:
    We have SEVEN players under contract and three of them are crap.

    The team is being gutted because we have a broke vulture capitalist as owner and a shady motherf*cker as GM.
     
  19. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Waiting for the 2018 TAM/GAM from the league, that's the way Andi works.
     
    xtomx repped this.
  20. xtomx

    xtomx Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    ...and when it does not arrive, we are back to 2015, but with Nikolic, until he is sold in July.
     
  21. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even if it does, he'll hold to it for a couple years like he did this year. We sucks again in 2018 & 2019 (Wooden Spoon), then cash in ALL the TAM/GAM for the 2020 season. Make a supporter shield, fall apart, just qualify for the playoffs and get eliminated in the play in game or whatever it's called.

    We are NEVER going to be a top tier in the league as long as Andrew is the owner.
     
    xtomx repped this.
  22. xtomx

    xtomx Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Yes, sir. We are in agreement on that point.
    It is unfortunate, but you are correct.
     
    Red and White 97 and firefan2001 repped this.
  23. Red and White 97

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Apr 22, 2017
    I see a lot of optimism for the following years in the Fire community
     
  24. loonixxx

    loonixxx Member+

    Chicago Red Stars
    Aug 28, 2004
    Soccer Limbo
    Club:
    Jagiellonia Bialystok SSA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rubber Dick.
     
    bunge repped this.
  25. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    You guys just don't GET how cool a minimalist trophy case is with the clean lines!

    [​IMG]
     
    SixKick, xtomx, bunge and 3 others repped this.

Share This Page