Why is the USMNT not Elite? (poll)

They don't exist here because they left the sport, switched to basketball or a different sport before they could develop the IQ and skills of an Iniesta. In other countries that scenario may exist but those are edge cases. Here it's normal. That's millions of kids overlooked. And the vast majority of pay to play club coaches charged with that don't understand how to develop an Iniesta. Plus, it's not appreciated by the powers that be. College coaches don't want Iniestas - they want their cookie cutter powerful and athletic American midfielder.

 

Regarding the poll, "it's just not our culture/DNA" doesn't make sense. We are a powerhouse in lots of different sports.

What is the implication here?

We're thinking about it the wrong way.

 

Again. You all have yet to name a player you think was of that caliber that was overlooked by USYNT or USMNT or anybody.

Please, for the love of God. I beg you. Name one. Name an Iniesta-level player you think was overlooked by MLS coaching, USMNT coaches, USYNT coaches. NCAA coaches. Anybody. Name one. I'll wait. Name one.

For the love of Christ, you think NCAA coaches aren't recruiting Iniesta level players? What Iniesta-level prospect is going to the America NCAAs???? What kind of intricate delusion is that???

 

Take a look at all the Americans playing in Europe. That has never happened before. Many of those players would start on the top NCAA teams. In terms of American born, Pulisic is a good example of what types of players we could develop in the right system. We have traditionally had good keepers, defenders etc internationally. Just now we're breaking into the midfield, wings, attack - at the bigger clubs. When Americans are core members of your starting XI, that's progress.

 

Kobe Bryant is a great example in terms of the issues in current American youth sports. Parents in a variety of sports are now getting "skills" trainer for their kids. Trying to develop the "Mamba Mentality" at a young age. But for Kobe since a huge chunk of his childhood was in Italy he was not able to train in basketball everyday. Often when he would go to the basketball courts in Italy it would be filled with kids playing soccer so he could not practice everyday. People have kids train like pros as kids but you can not train as a pro while just a kid. It is the reason that Tommy John surgeries are so common with young baseball players. And why so many players come in to the NBA already injured.

When it comes to the most popular American sports. It used to be common for future NFL, MLB and NBA stars to play Football in the fall, Basketball in the Winter and Baseball in the spring. Now with early sport specialization so common it still sometimes happen with NFL players, occasionally with MLB players and very rarely with NBA players. And when US soccer started to matter the first generation some of those guys were multi sport athletes. Tony Meola was drafted by the New York Yankees. Alexi Lalas also played Ice Hockey in College. Playing multiple sports has advantages but it is hard to imagine developing elite soccer players while only having them play soccer for one season of the year.

Germany, France and Spain are great at a ton of sports. They have all produced NBA superstars, major winning Tennis players, great cyclists, etc. In those countries soccer is the default sport. It could be that everyone starts with soccer and the tall kids get filtered into sports like basketball, handball and volleyball. Here there is not a default sport but, if there is one it is basketball. Many NFL greats had childhoods focused on basketball and only really focused on football until high school sometimes even later. At 15 you can not really switch your focus from basketball to soccer unless you were already a high level soccer player.

 

Having lived in Spain for a little while, I've made up my mind, that only Spain are really able to consistently produce that specific profile of midfielder in the mould of Xavi, Busquets, Rodri etc

England and Germany will never try and copy that exact profile of player, we know our culture doesn't allow it. That archetype is a not just a player who played a lot of futsal as a kid. Its the end product of the collective culture in Spain. Even if coaches/parents in England/Germany could somehow make kids to play futsal, they still can't replicate Spain.

And when I do see them appearing out of most other countries (inc Portugal), they appear to be more accidental than systemic. Brazilian kids probably play more futsal than anywhere and doesn't seem to produce any.

 

Freddy Adu is roughly the same physical size as Messi........ They both started playing pro around the same time. This notion that Messi wouldn't have been discovered in America is based around a myth about the game in this country.

The revisionist history of some in the fanbase (ironically many of whom either didn't follow the game back then, or weren't even alive in some cases) is truly comical at times.

 

BULL SHIZZ

 

The US is "elite" in soccer, in the same way that Gio Reyna is "elite" over on the YA boards.

 

Don't know about Asian-Americans but it is definitely odd that the Latino community hasn't been more utilized in this regard, for one reason or another.

 

And?

 

It just means that the US isn't any better or worse than Senegal in this regard.

 

What's the timeline?

I would never say never. There was a point where American football was not the most popular sport in the US. But we're talking decades and decades and even if something overtook it by some kind of measure, it'd still be incredibly popular.

I actually thought the concussion and brain damage issue would have made a larger dent in the player base -- most parents I know will not let their kids play football now -- but I failed to factor in our bizarre ass counter cultural movement to sanity and the rising economic inequality, I think.

And there's a pretty good chance that it's sports in general that erodes instead of say, soccer overtaking football.

But all these metrics about favorite sport or what they watch, etc., are usually playing at the edges. Look at TV ratings, attendance, ticket prices ... look at high schools with $20M stadiums, etc.

There's a large part of America where American football is a big part of people's cultural and personal identity. It's not a shock that this is also the part of America that often feels left behind and trod upon, even long before recent events.

I think it's hard to explain to Europeans or even urban Americans. You guys definitely have a cultural link with your home clubs, but if you are from, say, West Virginia, the college athletics for the University of West Virginia is probably the biggest source of pride the entire state might have if they are good. Because most of the country casually shits on the state.

And likewise, there's places where the high school football games on Friday night are THE social event of the town. That and church. To not go is to be some level of pariah. It's so ingrained; I imagine much like in some of the South American countries.

So yeah, in some places with big immigrant populations or the hipster big cities, you see shifts. Rural Georgia? No.

 

Does it? There's certainly degrees. Senegal started 6 players who were developed completely in France in the AFCON final, and like half of their recent March roster was born in France. The US certainly comes decently close in Best XI starters (4, most likely), but we don't nearly rely on it as much.

But that's not really my point. My point was that if we're talking internal development, Senegal is a terrible comparison point on a number of levels.

 

As a spectator sport, tackle football keeps growing and growing. But in terms of youth participation, basketball, baseball, and soccer are higher. In basketball and baseball much higher.

 

Yeah, it's also a mystery why the NBA drafts europeans and college players instead of just showing up with contracts at Rucker Park every August.

 

It does seem possible that the American system selects for a certain type of player which produces a somewhat different result compared to what is seen at grassroots level.

 

Nae'Qwan Tomlin and Chris Boucher are NBA players that did not play high school basketball. They grew up playing street basketball in New York City and Montreal respectively. They only started playing organized basketball in community college.

 

Source/link?

 

I can shit down this stupid, stupid conversation with one sentence.

If Gio Reyna could stay healthy he’d be automatic in our starting lineup.

 

Well rounded in technical, tactical and athletic ability? If more of the hispanic/latino kids playing fit the profile of Cardoso/Luna/Vargas/Ledezma/Bedoya/Gomez/Feilhaber/etc they might make it to the higher levels...

 

I am a tad skeptical that the system is totally meritocratic when it comes to determining this kind of thing.

 

Could you elaborate this, because I don't get what you're trying to tell.
Limits of second language understanding happening I guess.