While watching slide shows of the anti-war protests, one thing I do not quitre understand is the anti-Israeli sentiments being expressed so often. Now, admittedly, I do not follow the news as closely as I would like due to the obvious bias of the American media, but I have never heard Israel supporting this war. Some of the Israelis I personally know have actually expressed their disagreement with it, calling Bush "a cowboy" and "stupid". Are the protesters simply linking US and Israel out of the force of habit? Are they making assumptions that, because the war is on an Arab nation, Israel "must be behind it"? Or have I actually missed the Israelis show of support for the invasion? Can someone enlighten me?
Israel has supported this war from the beginning. It is the one country other than the USA were there is wide public support for it.
The one, semi-legitimate but lesser reason, is that it's the Middle East, so Israel is always gonna be a factor. There's some evidence that the people pushing this war have the ultimate aim of re-making the Middle East in a way that will make Israel safer. So it's not a wholly unreasonable concern. The main reason, tho, is that alot of the groups organizing these things are rabidly pro-Palestinian, to the point where you have to wonder if they're anti-Semitic. And that's why Israel is so close to the front burner at these rallies. IMHO, it's way out of proportion to what someone who isn't anti-Semitic would consider proportional.
To same the same thing in plainer language, when the arabs are pissed, they find a way to bring the Jews into it. Israel is the fall guy for alot of arab discontent. In this war, the US has tried to keep Israel at bay. But, in reality it doesn't matter as the arab nations and/or their supporters will make an indirect connection to Israel if they can't find a direct connection. It's a way of fostering arab solidarity against their common enemy.
Don't you know that the US government is only a puppet regime set up by the International Jewish community, US Oil Companies, Dow Chemical, McDonalds and Coca-Cola to serve their interests overseas?
Not to mention the fact that the Jews were entirely responsible for 09/11 in an attempt to frame the Arabs of the world. Those damn jews need to pay.
If you can look at this war and find no reason to involve Israel, congrats. Israel sets our Middle East policy because they have money, here in the US. That wealth and religious similitude buys allegiance and the neighborhood bully's toys. We have been part of the Zionist movement since it was forwarded by a wealthy, and apparently learned Briton. There is a correlation, you just have to read in between the lines.
Yeah, between the lines of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Which, in fact, you can often hear quoted at anti-war and anti-Israel rallies!
"Illinois Nazis. I hate llinois Nazis." Oh yeah, you hear the Protocols quoted all the time at anti-war protests here. Yep, you always see that group "Neo-nazis Against the War" at all the anti-war rallies. Sure ya do...
There is a segment of the anti-war population who see this as an extension of the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, and want to show their support for the Palestinians at any opportunity. However, there's also a US media who are looking for sensationalism within these rallies, and there is little that makes a splash like inflammatory and anti-Semitic banners. This shouldn't be surprising -- most photographers are freelancers and need something catchy to sell and get on to the wires. Think of it this way -- if there are 300,000 people on Broadway in NYC protesting the war, and one person is naked with nails pounded into his genitals, every photographer is going to fight to get a picture of the loony and ignore the boring-looking people who didn't feel compelled to mutilate themselves. The only way for you to get the real feeling for what people believe at these rallies is by attending. Don't believe that by looking at a half-dozen pictures circulated by the AP that you are really getting the whole story.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-lerner032703.asp "Surely, I asked Sharansky, you don't think Palestinian suicide bombers and the population that worships them are like the Russians, Czechs, and Poles, able and eager to free themselves with only a little help from us? Surely you see that for these Arabs, as for the Germans and Japanese, nothing less than a full-scale, long-term military occupation with a rigorous, all-embracing reeducation program has a chance? Sharansky is no pie-in-the-sky, peace-now wimp. He doesn't flinch or dodge. "Yes," he said calmly, "that's what must be done." Incredulous, I asked, "And you think the world will stand back and let Israel do that?" "No," he replied. "Of course not. Only America can do that." -------- http://slate.msn.com/id/2073093/ "The lack of public discussion about the role of Israel in the thinking of "President Bush" is easier to understand, but weird nevertheless. It is the proverbial elephant in the room: Everybody sees it, no one mentions it. The reason is obvious and admirable: Neither supporters nor opponents of a war against Iraq wish to evoke the classic anti-Semitic image of the king's Jewish advisers whispering poison into his ear and betraying the country to foreign interests. But the consequence of this massive "Shhhhhhhhh!" is to make a perfectly valid American concern for a democratic ally in a region of nutty theocracies, rotting monarchies, and worse seem furtive and suspicious." -------- http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A45652-2003Feb8¬Found=true Middle East hands who disagree with these supporters of Israel refer to them as "a cabal," in the words of one former official. Members of the group do not hide their friendships and connections, or their loyalty to strong positions in support of Israel and Likud. One of Abrams's mentors, Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, led a study group that proposed to Binyamin Netanyahu, a Likud prime minister of Israel from 1996 to 1999, that he abandon the Oslo peace accords negotiated in 1993 and reject the basis for them -- the idea of trading "land for peace." Israel should insist on Arab recognition of its claim to the biblical land of Israel, the 1996 report suggested, and should "focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq." -------- http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news083.htm Radio communications intercepted during the last five days suggest that the coalition is using Israeli airfield for conducting night air strikes against Iraq. Combat aircraft are taking off regularly from the [Israeli] Hatzerim and the Navatim airbases do not return to the same bases but fly toward the border with Jordan while maintaining complete radio silence. Possibly these are just Israeli Air Force exercises, However, [Russian] radio intercept and radar units observe increased intensity of radio communications coming from the Jordanian air force and air defense communication centers during such overflights, as well as changes in the operating modes of the US Army "Patriot" tracking radars deployed in Jordan. This indicates the Israeli airbases as used as forward airfield or that some of the coalition air force units are based there. Normally the IAF F-15I fighter-bombers and A-4N strike aircraft operate from the Hatzerim airbase and the F-16 fighter-bombers operate from the Nevatim base. Experts believe that these airbases may be used by the F-117 stealth bombers "officially" based at the Al-Udaid airbase in Qatar. Using these two locations minimizes the risk to the F-117s by allowing them to fly along the left bank of the Euphrates (in the direction of Turkey) and to avoid the dangerous maneuvering over Iraq. -------- http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html [The] "New Republic carries Harvard professor Stanley Hoffman. In writing of the four power centers in this capital that are clamoring for war, Hoffman himself describes the fourth thus: And, finally, there is a loose collection of friends of Israel, who believe in the identity of interests between the Jewish state and the United States. … These analysts look on foreign policy through the lens of one dominant concern: Is it good or bad for Israel? Since that nation’s founding in 1948, these thinkers have never been in very good odor at the State Department, but now they are well ensconced in the Pentagon, around such strategists as Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith." -------- http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/71010p-65985c.html But it's mostly a silent partnership because the Bush administration doesn't want to advertise Israel's help, fearing a backlash among Arab nations - particularly key allies like Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Behind the scenes, however, the Israelis are heavily engaged. Their sophisticated Amos 4 satellite routinely beams data to U.S. intelligence, and Israeli agents in Baghdad have provided extremely sensitive intelligence, sources told the Daily News. Yes, Shurik, you've missed the Israelis show of support for the invasion. The general population of Israel, having gone through a few wars, probably doesn't support it. But, just like in this country, the general population doesn't make the important decisions.
According to a poll taken before the shooting started there were two countries on Earth that had genuine popular support for the war: The USA and Israel. Nobody knows if, like their Amercian counterparts, most Israelis mistakenly believe Saddam was behind the 9/11 attacks. Since the shooting started, British support has also climbed above 50% but that was only to be expected as the usual "Support the Troops" reaction.
"Philly Neo-nazis. I hate Philly Neo-nazis." Well, Axis Alex, I guess you'd know about Fuhrers like Helms, Duke and Lott.
If you were at the anti-war rally in Central Park in October 6, 2002, you sure did. Specifically, you heard, "Bush is more Israeli than the Israelis themselves. He is a puppet of the Zionists [who] control the media, the government and the economy. The Jews' book - the Protocols of the Elders of Zion - explains how they control the world and how they make people fight against each other." And you saw the book on for sale as well. And while David Duke may not form "Neo-Nazis Against the War," he and his ilk take this tack in their writings. The shrewder anti-war demonstrators don't want to be affiliated with him, but I've seen Palestinian rights e-mail groups circulate David Duke material on more than one occasion. The far-right anti-semites infiltration into anti-war is troubling enough so that at least one democratic socialist group has taken notice... http://www.chartist.org.uk/articles/intpol/jan03_hari.htm And it's not simply the far-right that bring their anti-semitism into anti-war. There is plenty of it on the left as well. In many cases, it's primarily the organizers of the various "anti-war" movements simply tolerating anti-semitism in the name of "building a bigger coalition", in other cases its actively promulgating it. I speak this as someone who has attended anti-war demonstrations, teach-ins and vigils for both this war and others, as well as helped organize some. Suffice it to say after seeing what I saw, I am no longer involved in such efforts. To be fair, it was not simply the anti-Semitism or the anti-Israel propoganda. What really did it for me was when the organizers of our local "peace and justice" coalition INSISTED that the U.S.S.R. didn't actually invade Afghanistan, but were offering aid under a "mutual defense treaty." So for now, I am anti-war despite what can only be called herculean efforts by the anti-war movement to make me otherwise.
With Regards to israel.. I think that in the last War in the gulf, Iraq had a make or break for there nation. They knew that if they draw Israel in the war, they would have made a fortune, having the Arab military back out. It would be impossible to see IDF soldiers in Kuwait, wouldn't it? but the thing is that, many Israeli's either don't care about the war or don't actually want. Israel at Generall, does want change in Iraq, becuase in the long run, thats one Mother F-ucker we don't have to worry about. On top of the fact that Israel in a sort of state of war, with the palestinians, its too much on our hands, so the best idea is to actually take care of the first and foremost issue, until we jump to conclusions in the other one. From Netnayahu (former PM) view, he has talked with saddam or has gotten personal messages from him threw other means.....In his articles on Israeli newspapers he claims he talked to him, direct, phone to phone conversation in the mid 90's. Saddam said, he would not harm israel....Same thing would be said about Kuwait, but.....thats another thing. Saddam also wanted to initiatied the first ever Israel-Arab peace treaty with an arab state that is hostile to israel, thats not bordering it. But as netanyhu said.....it couldn't been done since America didn't want to do initiate peace with Iraq and Israel.... Probably a peace deal would be to compensate Iraqi jews and Israel's 1981 bombing of the Nuclear Arsenal!!!
When it happened, Doonsberry had a wonderful strip on the Russian ambassador to the UN explaining this same point to the Vietnamese ambassador (who couldn't stop giggling).
As for the protestors. I think that the new trend in the World of Anti-Globalisation, is to bring up the Palestinian Cause in every form and context. No matter if your targeting Israel, Starbucks, the G8 or War with Iraq. It's really kinda, sad, because that guy with the point of views on 60 minutes said that was one of the major things that made the protestors fail. For example, if you wanted to protest against the war, you would protest specifically against the war. Because whats a demonstration for??? Public opnion ofcourse...and when you have people attacking every major conflict whether it is oil, rich/poor, crime, mid east conflict, EU, etc....than you confuse the Public opinon...and thus..you fail!! Another key note, is that like always..Saddam is and will be a bad and the protestors know it, but they wouldn't do anything about it. They would just let him slip...and blame the US for everything... Thats not how it works..and thus, thats why the protest fails!!!
I wasn't at that particular protest but I have been to a few in Chicago and haven't seen any anti-semitism. I also know many of the groups involved here and they'd be horrified at any anti-semitism if it appeared at a peace rally. Maybe all the anti-war folks in New York are members of Islamic Jihad, I don't know. I do know that some groups who can be found in the anti-war movement do decry some Israeli policies or actions regarding the Palestinians (while also decrying those who blow up pizzerias). Of course, this makes them no different from, say, Amnesty International, and I do not believe these groups to be "anti-semitic". If some genuine anti-semites or pro-PLO folks want to try to piggy-back off the anti-war movement or try to hijack peace protests for their little causes, that's a shame. Pat Buchanan and his ilk can try to attach themselves to the peace movement but from what I've seen the vast majority of the protestors won't be fooled or accept anti-semitism as a legitimate part of anti-war protest. That said, it seems like you are attempting to insinuate by saying that you "often" hear this crap that anti-semites are among the mainstream of the anti-war protestors. If so, this is simply dishonest. Maybe in Egypt or among the Palestinians this is true, but in the US it is not. If any anti-semite kooks do appear at an anti-war rally, they are just as marginal as John Birchers or the KKK would be at a pro-war rally.
It's not "dishonest" Joe, but based on actual experience and fact. I have seen and heard this crap. And it isn't just the John Birch society, David Duke, and Pat Buchanan. It is the "left" itself. It can be seen directly on A.N.S.W.E.R.'s website and their literature and their "Long Live the Intifada" speeches.
Then put it into context. To hear you say it, most of the 200,000 people who marched in New York were screaming "Kill the baby-eating Jews!" when you and I both know that's ridiculous. Remember, you can be unhappy about some of the state of Israel's policies without hating all Jews just like you can disagree with the war without being an "America-hating commie". Let me repeat that for you: Just because you believe the Israelis are crapping on the Palestinians doesn't automatically make you an "anti-Semite". I can understand that you're not happy with any few genuine anti-semites that may try to hijack the anti-war movement. Heck, I feel the same. They have no place there and I'm happy they're marginalized. But please don't try to paint the anti-war movement (or "the Lweft" for that matter) as "anti-semite" because that's a steaming load of BS. I expect that kind of overgeneralizing crap from the anti-semites themselves, not from you.