Why is the football in eastern Africa behind the rest of its neighbors. We all know the nations where a lot of good players are developed and discovered in Western & Northern Africa, and to a lesser extent in Southern Africa, but why is the east so behind?
Mostly small countries and plagued by domestic unrest. They usually have one or two teams in ACN. If you compare to zone 2; they have only Mali in this year.
The small countrys argument doesn't work. Ethiopia about 80 mio, Kenya and Tanzania about 40 mio, Uganda about 30 mio and Mozambique and Madagascar about 20 mio. Outside of East Africa, every nation of more than 20 mio inhabitants won the ACN at least once, in East Africa, it's only Ethiopia. And about the domestic unrest... don't know if there's much less unrest in Central or West Africa. btw, what is zone 2? I go by wikipedias Africa article, they have Mali in Western Africa, which is full of teams that qualified for Uganda (among others Ghana, Nigeria, Ivory Coast)
This of course depends on your view of what is East Africa.. Zone 1: UNAF Zone 2: WAFU Zone 3: WAFU Zone 4: UNIFAC Zone 5: CECAFA Zone 6: COSAFA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carte_Afrique_CAF.png
Ah, interesting. Now, that Zone 2 really has only relatively small countrys in it. Still, Mali and Senegal have reached multiple ACN semis in the last decade, Senegal made it to a World Cup quarter... the last appearance of a team from Zone 5 in a semi was 1978. And like I said, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Ethiopia are big countrys in Africa, with a higher population than Cameroon, Ghana, Tunisia and anyone in Zone 2. Sudan can be added to that list (I had them as North Africans). Also, I'd count Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda towards the more stable countrys in AFrica.
I could never really understand it. If you look a infrastructure, stability and wealth Kenya should be a dominant football nation in Africa. Similarly I could never really understand Cameroon's dominance in Africa. Very poor country, relatively unstable and with a rather small population... And yet they are a dominant African football nation... I only thing I can put my finger on is PR factors. Because countries like Nigeria, Ghana or Cameroon managed to produce several great players in the past that made European clubs invest more into facilities and scouts for those specific regions. Also the local population became more interested in football because of good example. For another weird example: Why is Zambia, a landlocked, poor, underdeveloped and forgotten by the world country one of the top teams in Africa? They have no right to have a better record (not titles, but tournament average) than countries like Kenya, Angola, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, DRCongo or Zimbabwe... but yet they do... In terms of pure statistics they are only behind: Egypt, COte d'Ivoire, Ghana, Nigeria and Cameroon...
Interesting concept. Cote d'Ivoire had a short civil war that didn't affect their football program. Angola, despite having a longer civil war has emerged thanks to the help of oil. Kenya which had recent internal difficulties of their own happens to be surrounded by other war torn countries. The ongoing civil war in Somalia. The devastating civil war in Ethiopia followed by the Eritrean war, Sudan etc. Cameroon on the other hand which faces problems of poverty among its people and widespread corruption has been relatively stable in terms of civil unrest.
Kenya is quite stable. There may have been some civil unrest, but it wasn't anything to really disrupt anything. And wars in neighouring countries have no influence on local football progress. I don't buy it.
Agreed. Kenya is very stable and her neighbours beef doesn't spill over to the country. Kenya has been plagued by corruption by the KFF and it's antics. Misused money, being disorganised and the like. They were actually well oncourse to qualify for the AFCON and before that WC, but they fired their Coach Francis Kimanzi, who was doing very well with them over a dispute. After they fired him, they replace him with German coach Antoine "AWOL" Hey, who doesn't really know what he's doing. On top of that, after Kimanzi was sacked he went to focus on his coaching career at club Mathare United, but the KFF didn't let the beef slide. They told Hey that he cannot call up anyone from Mathare united which naturally limited the talent pool to choose from. They lost out to many teams like Nigeria, Mozambique and even Zimbabwe to the AFCON. On Tanzanian Football, there is less corruption as such, and the TFF generally does care to develop football there. But this just started a while ago, so give them time and if they continue on the same note they're on, they'll come good, provided they have the right pool of players. On Ugandan football, I don't know much about it, but on current form they are good enough to challenge and beat the more talented Kenyan NT. We'll have to wait and see if they can keep this up. Overall, Kenya is the strongest in the EA region, but corruption is killing their game. They can resurge quickly if it is swept away, but on current run of event, I'd say Tanzania are going to catch up soon. Although they should first try to be EA's best team before going on to be one of Africa's best.
And you already have some real talent in the side like McDonald Mariga, Dennis Oliech, Victor Wanyama. Still Kenya isn't the only federation with corruption issues...
The civil unrest argument was too broad in its scope. Kenya is relatively stable to its East African neighbors. But that's like saying that a community is on fire & one house is expecting not to be affected in any shape or form. In this case the war torn countries can challenge Kenya economically as in diminishing the power and optimal strength of trade blocs in that region which hinders overall progress. But that's another conversation. I'm agreeing with you that there's no direct influence from outside forces on its local football development. So, then it's a matter of internal corruption within the Kenyan football organization. Since you brought up Cameroon, further comparisons between the two nations is applicable. I will state that when discussing corruption among these two football organizations, it is much more widespread and apparent on the Kenyan side which is playing a definitive role on any advancement that they have ever wished to achieve.
Kenya is mostly surrounded y relatively rich and stable countries: Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda. Yes, you have Somalia to the north, but I have never ever heard anyone say that this influences how people perceive Kenya. Kenya is basically perceived separately from the problem areas. If people saw Kenya as a danger area IT WOULD NOT BE THE NO1 TOURIST DESTINATION IN AFRICA! Hence the argument of civil strife in Sudan or Somalia influencing anyhing in Kenya is extremely flimsy.
Egypt is the most visited country in Africa, not Kenya. Also, believe what you may but there's no need to bury your head in the sand. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-thurston/a-domino-effect-in-the-ho_b_303798.html http://www.communication.go.ke/media.asp?id=73 http://www.state.gov/p/af/rls/rm/2009/126796.htm
I actually meant subSaharan Africa. I hardly count North Africa as Africa The articles you quoted are ridiculously off-topic (a poorly written an non-related article in Huffington, Kenyan sailors being kidnapped and a short unconclusive fragment in the third). I'm not saying Somalia has no effect on Kenya, but its effect on the government and football especially is minimal. It has repercussion near the eastern border, but everyday life is not influenced... especially concerning football. You are trying to win a ridiculous battle at the same time conveying just how little you understand the countries and continent. Every Kenyan I know would have quite a laugh after reading what you are trying to prove. Really... if anyone is burying his head in the sand it's you. Somalia is a problem for some time, but even before that Kenya did not win African Cups of Nations... In the meantime tourism business is booming in Kenya and people seem unaware that they are in the middle of a all-out conflict (at least that's reality according to HeartandSoul).
@HeartandSoul: Do you really want to claim that the big football countrys in West and Central Africa have seen more stability than Kenya? I mean, Ivory Coast went increasingly unstable in the 90s after their 30-year-president died, which culminated in a civil war 2002-2007, in the Niger Delta (Nigeria), there have been violent conflicts about the oil production for 20 years or so, pretty much every neighbour of Cameroon has seen violent conflict over the last 2 decades... by African standards, Kenya is incredibly stable, and in the last 20 years, so were neighbours Tanzania and Uganda.
Sorry, South Africa is the second most visited country in Africa. I'm not trying to win any argument, actually I'm just rebutting the claims that you made with a quick Google search. I already stated that Kenya is relatively stable & found deficiencies in the football program due to their corrupt football organization. But you skipped that part & that's not my problem.
Please refer to post #7. I was simply giving an example in terms of discussion, it was never really the point. I already addressed how Cameroon and Kenya differ in football organization.
So lets keep with football... why the hell are we talking about Somali pirates in the context of Kenyan football??? No wonder we can't communicate if you have gone so off-topic. We're talking about different things.
To get back on topic. A short assessment of football in Africa: DOMINATORS: Northern Africa - Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco The longest history of playing football, stability, relative richness and decent to great facilities for football with some consistent investment in youth and clubs. It's no surprise that Northern Africa are the top African sides, especially Egypt (who has the largest population of the region). They may not have a lot of big names, but the football there is nicely organized and they have a decent pool of experienced and well-brought up players to choose from. It is interesting to note that the downfall of Algerian football started at the same times of the 1990s civil unrest... A coincidence? Nigeria Not surprising since they are the biggest country in Africa in terms of population. 120+ mln people and most of them young... Naturally a lot of talent has to be found in this football crazed nation. However corruption, mismanagement, poor managers and weak facilities brought Nigeria down a bit. Even now the best players don't get adequate facilities to evolve and a lot of players waste their talent in subpar European clubs, which are uncapable of expanding the talent. Still given the right mix they can be world beaters, as they have talent in abundancy. Ghana Ghana really shouldn't be a powerhouse comparable to Nigeria... 4 times less population. But yet they are and historically have been better than Nigeria. The only thing Ghana lacked was World Cup success or an Olympic gold medal, but they have better achievements on most other levels. This is mostly due to the stability of Ghana, which includes widespread investment in training facilities and youth schools. They may not be of European standards but they have done wonders. Once Ghana used to have the most talented players (Abedi Pele, Nii Lamptey), but were lacking tactically. Currently Ghana has the best tactically playing side in the region, which is only caused by persistent investment in football. The players raised in Ghana quickly adjust to playing in Europe tactically and this is especially shown by the fact that they feel right at home in Italy, a country very focused on tactics (Muntari, Appiah, Mensah, Asamoah, Hottor and so on). OVERACHIEVERS Cote d'Ivoire Yes. They are overachievers. Just look at the population of the country at 18 mln. Yet they have the most top tier players in Africa at the moment. Historically Cote d'Ivoire was always one of the most stable countries and had decent investment into football. Nothing big but it was good enough to make the country a force to be reckoned with in the 90s. But Cote d'Ivoire really only became a top footballing nation in Africa in XXI Century. This is mostly thanks to French man Jean-Marc Guillou and his high-standard ASEC Mimosas Youth Academy. Basically one man was responsible for building the current Ivorian squad. It's amazing to note that these are all players taught at ASEC Mimosas by Guillou academy: Emmanuel Eboué, Arthur Boka, Gervinho, Yaya Toure, Romaric, Salomon Kalou, Bakari Kone, Aruna Dindane, Siaka Tiene, Didier Zokora - 10 key players of the current Ivory squad... Plus the phenomenon that is Didier Drogba - a guy who started playing professional football at the age of 21 is no arguably the best striker in the world. The Ivorians no longer have Beveren to school there pupils further in Europe... that club was really important for the Ivorians as a springboard to better clubs. It is hard to say if once this generation fades there will be replacements... I would have to say yes, because the generation is already reinvesting the money they are earning back into the youth facilities. Cameroon Now this country is an enigma. They have been dominant in African football since the 1980s. The country didn't have any significant investment in football, wasn't particularly well run and football wasn't really invested in. In 1982 a Cameroonian team of unknowns led by a second rate French-based Roger Milla played better football than the world champions Italy, the star-studded Poland and missed out due to a bad ref call. In 1990 a similarly no-name Cameronian squad led by a retired second rate footballer Roger Milla convincingly defeated a Maradona-led Argentinian squad with just 10 men and arguably were the best team at the tournament. To this day I have no idea how a bunch of no-namers could have achieved this. But since then evolution of Cameroonian soccer is quite easy to follow: Scouts suddenly amassed in Cameroon, clubs started investing in youth facilities and even the government chipped in. Since then they won the Olympics and were runner-ups at the Confed Cup. Plus they dominated African football between 1998 and 2004. They will probably remain a force to be reckoned with in the future. But if anything can explain to me the phenomenon of the 1982 and 1990 squad please do so. Zambia The biggest enigma. In regards to the AFCoN they have a better record than any country in Africa apart from Egypt, Cameroon, Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire and Nigeria. Yes, that includes Tunisia or Morocco. During the late 1980s and 1990s it was quite obvious that Zambia's success was also down to having Kalusha Bwalya, one of the best players ever to come from Africa and in my opinion opinion one of the best players ever. But Zambia have been consistent since the 70s and even now you can easily see that in terms of pure talent they are decidedly above any of the second tier sub-Saharan sides like Burkina Faso, Gabon, Benin, Angola, Mozambique and so on. UNDERACHIEVERS Kenya South Africa The richest country in Africa, the best youth facilities, good stadiums, a lot of poeple interested, a good league... but they are unable to produce anything apart from the short stint in the mid-90s. Their FA is also decent comparitively. If you watch the players play they are some of the best trained players in Africa. But still they never miss an opportunity to fail... not only on the country level but also in club competitions. Talentwise RSA is miles ahead of countries like Tunisia, Morocco, Senegal and such... Maybe the problem is that almost none of the players have European club football exposure? Most of them play in South Africa and they struggle to adapt to different football philosophies? They play one-touch football with a lot of inventiveness. Trouble area has been the attack... scoring goals a big issue.
Maruti, your analysis is skewed on the matter. About Ghana? Ghana was the first African country to be independent. At that time, it had the highest per capita income on the continent. Ghanaians taught Nigerians how to play football; most Ghana football pundits still think Nigeria does not have the technique very well. Even their own Odegbami admits that. Apart from Egypt, Ghana has had a better head-to-head against every other African country. They are tied with Egyptians. Using political stability and economic prosperity as factors that have influenced football positively in some countries is misplaced. Football development has very little to do with political stability and economic prosperity but more to do with priorities and passion. Ghanaians are crazy about football. Take a look at this. The oldest Ghanaian club, Accra Hearts of Oak was formed in 1910. Also, Kwame Nkrumah, Ghana's first President invested a lot in sports. Ghanaians actually learnt the technique of the game very early as top level Yugoslavian and Brazillian coaches were hired to manage the game. Football was one of the vehicles for Kwame Nkrumah to prove the world that Africans were capable of excellence. The name 'Black Stars' is indicative of that.
I fail to see how anything you wrote contradicts anything I wrote... I noted the stability and investments in Ghanaian football as the reason to successes.
Well this is the difference between what I am relating and what you wrote. I am not talking about investment in football. Kwame Nkrumah has been gone for over 40 years now but Ghana has still been playing good football. As a matter of fact, the last time Ghana won the ANC was at a period of political instability -- in 1982 in Libya; they used a makeshift team to win the cup. I am only contextualizing football as it is pertains to particular countries. It is passion and historical development of the game that are relevant here. Correlating per capita income or population or political stability to the success of football is vodoo analysis. The United States are still having a difficult time to stamp their mark on the game. The Chinese are not great footballers; Japan is nothing to write home about. Countries such Germany, England, Italy, Holland, etc. all have a historical passion about the game. In 1978 ANC in Ghana, Nigeria boasted that Ghana with a tattered economy could not beat them. The match ended 1-1; Ghana won the trophy after beating Uganda 2-0; and Nigeria with all their oil wealth were bounced out by Zambia. South Africa has never been a footballing country until recently; so understand their struggles.
You guys are missing something big here. In West Africa, if you are young and athletic, your heros are footballers, and if you are good, some Belgian team finds you and you start playing for Vitesse as a 15 year old. In East Africa, if you are young and athletic, your heros are track athletes, and if you want to be a big star, you run. Then someone finds you and you move to Europe and wear goofy sunglasses and haul ass.
I'm not sure if I could agree. Football is undoubtedly the number 1 sport in East Africa as well, and the kids there also look up to football stars albeit not their own. The real answer lies more in regards to infrastructure and history both of which the East African nations are lag behind in.