Why doesn't the U.S. produce star players?

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by trekker, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. Bakes

    Bakes Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Trinidad and Tobago
    I think a false dichotomy is being set up between street soccer and structured environments. That really isn't the problem, the problem is over-coaching on the one hand and lack of spontaneous ability on the other. It is difficult for a player to become world class by just playing in the street, at some point fundamentals such as movement and passing need to be instilled by coaching.

    On the flip side it is also difficult for the academy player to become truly world class without having the spontaneous deft touches, the close control and accurate passing required in tight spaces. That ability is what is honed in street soccer since close control and passing in tight spaces is inimical to the game. Some of that just can't be coached, and can't be replicated in the academy setting. It is no small coincidence that one of the most successful academies in the world, Ajax.. makes informal 6-v-6 games (presumably on a smaller field w/o goalies) an intrinsic part of its instruction. There is coaching, but also large segments of the day where players play these pick up games under the observation, but w/o the involvement of coaches.
     
  2. custar

    custar Member

    Sep 30, 2007
    You are also (still) missing the point.
     
  3. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    that's fair, i think introduction of small sided games for young players of 4v4 or 7v7 played on basketball courts could be the way to go.
     
  4. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    If he'd be around here and young enough to play, he would still be able to dribble anyone with the same ease he had 50 years ago. This guy used everyone of his disadvantages on his favour to do so back then, so it would be likely that he would still do them now.

    Pure skill and talent, isn`t an issue of times and ages. He was a monster back then, and today he would a monster likewise.
     
  5. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    That would only help them to learn how to play in small places and/or parts of the regular soccer pitch, and maybe gain some basic skills . Unfortunately the vision and positioning of the players within the game in hand, only can be acquired in the normal pitch with 11 players on each side and with the goals, to learn thoroughly which is the objective of the game.
    :)
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here in northern Virginia, I see pickup soccer all the time. Yes, a lot of the time it's immigrants, but I also see more and more teenage club players getting together on their own. My 13 year-old son and some of his friends and schoolmates do so from time to time--as they get older and it's easier for more of them to travel on their own, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a more regular thing just like many of the high school-age kids I see.
     
  7. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    The concepts are very similar, even on a small pitch, i would say that on the contrary, it's easier to play on a larger surface, as it tends to be less clogged up. Anyways, as the boys get older, they'll move on to a bigger pitch anways
     
  8. BigKeeper

    BigKeeper Member

    Mar 1, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You say "If there was a bigger, faster, stronger kid". It is likely that kid will not be the bigger faster stronger adult player. We pick that kid without understanding the difference of a temporary early maturing advantage at 13-17 years of age and the right tools of a full grown adult pro level player.
    It's pretty common to see a 14 year old who looks older than the majority of his peers, is as big as his mom and dad already, already has light facial hair, has a comparatively stronger pop to his strides than his peers, be a high impact player. It's also pretty common to see them struggle to keep up after 17 years of age.
     
  9. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    "street" just means unorganized soccer or pick up game, is just a cool word for city kids.

    point is, the more soccer you play the better you are, if you get good coaching since younger, even better.

    I dont know where you can get Mauricio Cienfuegos book, former LA Galaxy and Salvadoran player.

    In the book Cienfuegos says that in San Salvador, they had hot spots where the best street tournaments took place.

    Basically bunch of kids would show up, make their teams and compete, they will play for hours prob untill 11pm.

    He said the best team was the one with the Gonzalez brothers, guess who was on that team? Magico Gonzalez :D

    The cool thing is that Cienfuegos said his team was the underdog and they did beat the Gonzalez team once, he explains that it was a great feeling...

    This is what American Soccer is missing, those urban unorganized soccer competitions where creativity is required.
     
  10. custar

    custar Member

    Sep 30, 2007
    No doubt this happens. Youth coaches are under pressure from parents (who are paying his/her fee) to win now, and the kids who mature early are an easy path to that in younger age groups. However, hasn't it also been posted multiple times on BS and elsewhere that a large number of pro and national level players were identified in their early teens? I am saying we need to keep both types of kids in soccer as long as possible.
     
  11. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought elessar was right on the money when I read:

    ...but that's because I thought he wrote "No play to model".

    One huge piece we are missing is a source of high-level soccer, on TV and live, for kids to watch and model. It's getting better, but even 5 years ago, where would you turn to in the US to view an EPL match? Or a Champion's League game? A few lucky kids might get to go see their local MLS team occasionally, but they couldn't follow every game on TV (take debates about the level of MLS play elsewhere. ;)). Maybe there is a local college team (again, let's not debate the merits of college soccer here).

    Only in the past few years has high level soccer been something kids are regularly exposed to, although even then you need the high-tier cable package. And it's something they are sorely missing. After all, how can you know how to play the game at a high level if you've never seen what it looks like at a high level?

    A personal anecdote. I coached a low-level HS team for a number of years, many kids didn't even play soccer outside the HS season, much less watch it. One rainy day, rather than practice, we watched video. 45 minutes of one of their own games on tape, camera view from up high in the press box similar to a televised game. Then 45 minutes of a Champion's League match between ManU and Real Madrid. In that second 45 minutes, all the stuff I described while watching their own play started to make sense. You could practically see the lightbulbs going on. They next game, they went out and played the best soccer--the most soccer-like soccer they'd played all season. Before watching that video, they didn't really understand what the game was supposed to look like.

    It's a huge missing link in creating the "soccer culture" that's missing in the US.
     
  12. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy


    1. Pick up games.
    2. Soccer on american tvs

    Pretty much it. Good stuff.
     
  13. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And of course Ronaldinho wound up at Gremio at the ripe old age of six years old.

    Pick-up soccer undoubtedly helps, but world class players are made at clubs nowadays. This is one reason why Africa doesn't generate nearly as much talent per-capita as South America.
     
  14. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    That depends a lot in what is your definition of "club".
    Many children play at clubs back here, but they are informal clubs, many of them represents blocks of streets, if not only a building or just one street and its inhabitants, where at most one of the parents offices as coach of the team. Most neighborhood teams are federated in order to get games with teams of the same zone or from other zones as well. Soccer here is a way of life, as almost 70 % of the population practices it, at all diferent levels (mostly by men, not so popular among women).
     

Share This Page