Why Doesn't the U.S. Produce Star Players? Honestly...I think we're on the right track. Very talented U17's and American talent starting to be produced abroad.
I often think I'm seeing something completely different than what the big time Club coaches are watching. I'll see a technically talented player, playing really well, executing great ideas cleanly, be taken off the field and players who consistantly execute poor passes and decsions stay on the field. The player I see as not as good, usually does run around the field more and usually appears more physically mature. They run alot, often abandoning their position, leaving gaping holes on the field. However these great coaches of ours, and I'm talking top reputation clubs, see that as a great player. Why, because these are kids on the other team who aren't able take advantage of the poor positioning, passing and decisions of the popular aggresive player/s. So, the big time clubs coaches promote these players to the National team coach. The one who seems to have been made for the sport, gets passed by. No matter how much chatter about how great a club is or that this club is talking about doing it right, these are still the same coaches who have been doing it wrong for the last 10-20 years, producing the general lackluster talent we have. The coaches who have been trying to do it right for the last 10-20 years, you wont know their names and neither will the National team scouts and coaches. They hold no clout. They don't coach for the biggest most winning clubs, they wouldn't get hired based on their record or lack there of. The parents don't bring the current most talented kids to these coaches because they don't have the big winning record all the time. The parents also know, their kid will get no exposure on a team that's not at the top of the standings. Club coaches - conditioned by the market to win in Youth U11-U18 Soccer, not to develop true natural talent to perform at 22 years old.
I wonder why Dempsey, Donovan, Howard, Friedel, and to a lesser extent Keller aren't considered stars ? McBride ? Yeah, we haven't produced anyone worth a shit yet.
We've got the athletes, just not the players. That's the thing, players like Totti or Xavi would have never made it as far or maybe even turned out the same if they were American because they can't run as fast, jump as high, or do long throw-ins like our beloved coaches like so much. Especially in high school ball (in my state), the strategy seems to be to kick the ball as little as possible. Coaches formulate ways to turn the run of play into a set piece, and if a player can throw the ball 40 yards from the touch line, watch out. What I can't understand is how the national side, whose gameplan revolves around set pieces, is so terrible at defending them.
Yup, I've played with some really good players and they said that they didn't even make their college teams because they were "too small"... lol, how can you be "too small" to play soccer? Like the guy above me said, haven't these idiot coaches ever heard of Xavi (or Messi!) lol I am actually surprised that Landon Donovan made it to the national team. Tons of players his size are constantly ignored and overlooked as being "too small" in favor of guys like Jozy Altidore and such, nevermind the fact that the Donovan-type players are 10 times better.
There's no doubt that American coaching is a couple decades behind what would be considered "world class." America produces some of the greatest athletes in the world, but none of them will turn into a Messi or Xavi unless coaching at the youth level improves. High level soccer is still very new to this country compared to Europe or South America, but we've made good progress. We're not pushovers. We're not mediocre. The question is when are we going to take that next step toward being elite? It begins with coaching. There's too many high school and youth coaches who try to approach the game like its basketball and try to design plays and pick players who's attributes come in handy in a certain situation that may or may not happen. The American mentality does not fully understand how free-flowing and spontaneous soccer is and should be. American sports are all rigidly controlled and structured. Football and baseball games are pretty much a series of set-pieces really. Ball is in play for a few seconds. Then you stop and reset and do it again. Basketball, while more free-flowing, is still very much based around pre-determined plays drawn up during timeouts and other stoppages. And when one team scores, they run back and get into a set defense, and the other team comes up the floor and sets up their offense. Soccer can not be played in that manner. We need to let creativity and imagination play a much bigger role than we currently do.
I agree with you regarding the free flow and individual creativity of play in Soccer but, in my opinions, there is a crucial step before that, that is not yet aggressively being addressed by our top clubs. That's individual talent/skill. I have seen some of the worst examples of players in our area being called up to U14-U17 National teams. Their passing, touch and decision making is well below where it needs to be at their age, yet, they are considered top players in the league and obviously pushed by their coaches for the Nats. We're not even close if we can't see that these players are below par.
I really don't see any discrimination against small players in my area. As a matter of fact, I think small players who are also early maturers have the greatest advantage. Genetically smaller kids who mature early, adjust most easily to their growth and often excel in youth Soccer. Players who are genetically larger obviously will have the greatest change in body to adjust to as well as a longer growth period. Often the larger player will start having his peak performance in his 20's, while the shorter player may peak well before that. The small mature players often dominate in youth Soccer, but, if not above average in pace or quickness, will often struggle in the physical aspect of Soccer in the professional years. Donovan and Messi are guys with tremendous pace, Xavi and Iniesta have extraordinary skill with excellent athleticism. Smaller guys, just like larger guys, need a useful talent to standout. What is likely, if two players with average pace and with pro level skill were after one spot, the taller or stronger one would have the advantage because of the added feature of winning the physical battles and winning in the air. Longer stride with equal frequency means a faster athlete as well, but small players with low center of gravity and top skills can be useful in attacking mid as a set up player. I guess the key is, know your physical weakness and build the other attributes to counter them.
questioning a player for his height is just ignorance, thats why football doesnt grow in the usa. I think you guys are genetically formed to prodecue baseball, amrican football, basketball and hokey players, but not foootball soccer players.
Yes, that's exactly why soccer doesn't grow here That's why the majority of our best players (not including GK) have been so freaking tall right ? Our top 3 cap earners are 5'8 or under. Only 2 of the top 9 (Keller is in the top 10) cap winners are over 6 ft tall. Our leading NT scorer is 5'8 and the 6 of the top 10 on that list are 5'9 or under. 6 of the top 10 assist leaders for our NT are 5'9 or under. Damn, if only we'd let those short guys play.
the real question is when would the usa produce a world class coach? oh wait we've got Bob!!!! Bravo... i have an idea to produce a world class player thought. not more stick to hit the pinatas, lets have the kids kicking the pinata, their kicking skill would get a lot better
You got a yellow card because everything you posted had absolutely nothing to do with genetics. And genetics has nothing to do with why American "doesn't produce star players."
So is it the genes we get from our European ancestors or is it the genes we get from are African ancestors that make us better at baseball, American football, basketball and hokey? And if these genes are the ones that make us good at these sports, I'm surprised there are few to no leagues in Africa or Europe that are any good in American football, hockey or baseball.
[this was in reply to another thread but it should really go here so] MY take is: Passion like being able to dance past some other kid defending at the top of the box, or the dirt laden area of some patchy field. Being able to stick with a guy who's fast by trying harder....being able to do anything you can imagine with the ball without thinking of blinking etc etc, developing the fundamental soccer brain painted field or no. LOTS of time with the ball. All of that should be first. Instead the mentality that soccer is fundamentally a sport based on specific template actions, crosses and sticking to you position is limiting our soccer culture. Because really, playing soccer is about freedom. Freedom of movement. Creativity. I remember back in high school in PE, kids thought that playing fullback meant you can't cross the midfield. You can't run all over the field in baseball or shoulder pad football. In that sense there is NO unlimited freedom of play in those sports. One might argue "yes well those are different sports". Sure, but this *way of thinking* is TOO COMMON all over soccer I've seen - recreational kids leagues, high school, competitive leagues, etc. But Not with A SINGLE Mexican(/American) person I've played with! This American way of thinking about the sport (culture has an enormous influence) - thinking from the top down (rules and whiteboards) is a limiting way of thinking about soccer that have I seen all over California in my soccer life. The fact is that there may be kids who are incredible athletes with high workrates yet don't get a chance to develop certain abilities since their soccer experience is somehwat more akin to dressing up and going to church on Sunday. To be a better team than Spain, you need BOTH superhuman superstars that likely developed as I explained as WELL as going through rigorous academies and coaching so they can develop all the things needed to be part of an incredible team.
So if anyone gets the idea that I'm saying team organization etc is NOT important, that's not it...because to be better than Spain, we can't substitute or subtract one kind of quality for another, we have to add more ability and quality! I'm hoping that with more people in the USA watching soccer, there will be more of a fundamental understanding of what it takes to be a good player. If the soccer moms and orange slices are a core of our sport for kids, that's totally fine, but I believe to produce a star player takes more: A kid who loves the game and who develops a fundamental understanding of all the possibilities during play, who plays a lot, and gets developed from there. And then we just need a larger net.
Excellent post!! I can't tell you how many times I have heard a coach talk to their team about how great Messi or Xavi, or Iniesta is, and how they want to play a possession game, but then game day comes and the little guys with skill are on the bench while 20 big dumb animals kick lumps out of each other for 90 minutes. I don't get it.
It's undoubtedly true that American coaches like dudes who can run/jump like hell but are complete donkeys on the ball. However, there's a flip-side to this that's just as bad. American coaches also fall in love with guys who are extremely good dribblers but can do nothing else of any value with a ball. Case in point--this weekend I played in a reasonably high-level tournament. One of my teammates was a D1 college player. The guy was a really good dribbler. He could do all kinds of stupid circus tricks with the ball. So that's wonderful and all. The problem, though, was that he couldn't do jack squat else. His decision making was appallingly bad. ("Well, I'm a good dribbler, so every time I get the ball, I'm going to try to dribble through the entire opposing team.") On the rare occasions when he decided to pass, it was a nightmare, because he couldn't figure out how to put the proper weight on a 10-yard square pass and would just gun it at you. And so overall, the guy absolutely *killed* our team. But he managed to convince coaches at every level through college that he was good. And why? Because people foolishly equate "beautiful, skillful soccer" with "lots of pointless dribbling and stupid circus tricks". It's like people are watching a different sport from the one I'm watching. In the games I watch, 95% of the action I see involves guys spotting open teammates and completing passes to them, and 5% of the action I see involves guys taking opponents on via the dribble. But it's like other people just filter out the 95% and think it's all about dribbling, when that's such a small part of the game. And so they fall in love with guys who have TEH SICK DRIBBLING SKILLS and completely ignore guys who actually have good vision, good decision-making abilities, and can pass in a way that enables their team to keep the ball and create good scoring chances. So yeah, we overvalue guys who can run and jump and are strong. But we also overvalue dribbling in the absence of any other discernible footballing aptitude.
As an American soccer coach... -Chad S about is right about one thing, that many coaches over-emphasize circus tricks. Players don't need 15 moves. Really they need to master 3. (a move, it's counter-move, and a change of direction). Yes, a player can learn more moves but let's not confuse knowing a dozen ways to beat a defender 1v1 with playing soccer. -American players do not, as a whole, receive away from pressure. And a very small, miniscule number actually receive away from pressure AND attack in the same touch. It's a small detail that is not lost on Barca players for example. This is a broad generalization but: American player just hopes to control the ball. Good player anywhere else receives and turns away from pressure. Barca caliber player receives away from pressure and attacks with the same touch. See how much more efficient others are at play? 3 times more efficient? Very few American players get to levels 2 and 3. Many don't even get to level 1. -Soccer IQ. From my experience, whenever a teenage American player looks to get better the answer is always the physical. How do I get faster? How do I get stronger? How do I build more endurance? Look to solve your soccer deficiencies by learning to read the game better. React faster to a situation. Situations where strength are a factor are avoidable if you're not the strongest. Do you see Messi constantly banging with defenders? The only time he displays his strength is when he skips off a tackle and keeps cruising. Endurance? If you train for soccer on a regular basis then you're more than likely match fit. It's really the fine-tuning of technique, that will make you play faster. Read the game better and you'll play faster and be more effective. Energy is a finite resource, you can't run all game-use knowledge of positioning and reading the game to determining when and where your energy is best used. In a environment of unlimited substitutions, players don't learn this. They just run until they're tired, come off, rest, and run until they're tired again. But I do think it's wrong to say coaches over value dribbling. Not enough coaches value dribbling at the young ages and very few kids are comfortable with the ball at their feet. Too many coaches overvalue passing at all ages but teach receiving very poorly (how can you pass if no one can receive?). So it's a lot of emphasizing the wrong thing at the wrong times, teaching the right things but only teaching part of the right thing. For example, many coaches teach a dozen moves and many players can execute but few coaches teach their kids to explode away after the move. That's the most critical part of the move. You faked your defender out but went nowhere?? We can't produce stars because we don't have enough coaches that know how to make stars. I'm not saying I know how to make stars but I'm just pointing out the blame is in the wrong place. I unequivocally believe the raw material is here (even without our pointy football and basketball players joining soccer), but we can't turn that raw material into anything worthwhile. Grassroots coaches are the most important link in the chain and most times these are our worst coaches, well meaning but don't know squat about laying the foundation for a great player.
Oh, alright then I guess this thread was the proper one to express my ideas. I'll stick to this thread and leave the other alone. Here was my original post and the one elvin jones responded to: And it was beautifully explained: For many countries around the world, their greatest source of talent comes from kids who come from the poor neighborhoods and learn to play in the streets. These kids play soccer for recreation and develop their skills and increase their talent. These moments are essential for kids because it is the time when their minds are the most free, they have an impressive creativity and imagination. This allows for a player to develop a love for the game and to seek to improve oneself in it. It is where they have their heroes and develop dreams of becoming like them. Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho all came from the poor streets in South America. Admittedly, it is easier for kids in other countries to make it big if they are poor. Soccer is generally called the 'poor man's sport' because its inexpensive. However, in the United States the opposite seems true. In the US, generally for a player to rise in the ranks his family has to put up some cash. Soccer clubs and soccer camps are expensive and are only available to those that have the means. That leaves a great pool of players who are limited by their economic status. Football should be appreciated in its essence as a sport; not by everything that surrounds it at an elite level. Kids should play the sport because they generally like it. No basketball player plays basketball simply because they like the Lakers right? No, its because they enjoy the feeling of holding the ball, dribbling around players and shooting. Same with soccer, kids should enjoy it for what it is. And soccer is a great sport because it allows creativity and freedom of expression. And this does happen. In, personal experience, I have seen numerous kids play in the streets, tennis courts, school parking lots, the only catch is that they were Hispanic. A long time untapped source for USA soccer. When/if the US ever develops this soccer culture US stars will come.
This idea along, with the "best athletes go to other sports" argument, need to be given a rest. The idea that there's some magical, hispanic player undiscovered in some park is just ludicrous.
YES, this relates to the same subject as the previous posters, building SOCCER IQ. It's more than being tall and jumping, or even quickness, but seeing the infinite possibilities in soccer and then knowing which decisions are the good ones and being able to execute well. The most limiting thing I've seen with players is ALWAYS soccer IQ. That's why even playing with a amigo gordo can be better than a fast kid, if the fat guy can see a through ball or pass and weight it properly. (I only play pickup games now )
I guess you can also add that those genetics make up most of Argentina and Brazil as well. I guess they should be playing American Football, Baseball and Hockey then.