Its Not true that Neymar is going to flop like Robinho People that dont like Neymar always say that hes just another Robinho and is just going to flop once he goes europe, which I think is bullcrap. Neymar has potential to become the best player in the world The reason I think Robinho flopped was because of Real Madrid, once he found out about the C.Ronaldo swap. So it doesnt mean that will happen to Neymar. If Neymar joins Barcelona he would turn out like Ronaldo 9 and Ronaldinho. Neymar will play better and score more if he joins Barcelona, because he will be playing with the best team in the world Barcelona, while he will be versing crappy teams like Getafe, Levante UD, Racing Club, RCD Espanyol, Real Betis, ect. Those other Liga teams are as good as the teams in Brazil Serie A. La Liga only have Barcelona and Real Madrid, and the other La Liga teams are like the Brazil League teams such as Sao Paulo, Santos and Flamengo, Corinthians, ect. So Neymar will play against the same type of defenders, but with the best team in the world. Why do you think C.Ronaldo scores more with Real Madrid then he did at Manchester United?? because he is playing with Real Madrid against crappy La Liga teams. It proves that Barcelona and Real Madrid are the only good teams in La Liga. I think people are just jealous because Brazil always have the best players in the world, every decade/generation a Brazil player is the best. Look at these decades, its always a Brazil player. 60s - Pele, Garrincha 70s - Pele 80s - Zico, Maradona 90s - Ronaldo 9, Romario, Rivaldo 00s - Ronaldinho, Ronaldo 9, Zidane Today - Messi, C.Ronaldo, Neymar
The only thing that Neymar and Robinho have in common is that both are wing forwards that came from Santos youth teams. But ignorance reigns in most european fans when the subject is south-american football. Our own media has a part to blame, since we still don't broadcast/advertise our tournaments worldwide like we should. It is possible to watch some matches, we are in the internet era afterall, but we don't do much to convince that our product is good and should be watched. There is so much money to be earned, yet we throw away such opportunity... That's why we see europeans believing their defenders are 3 meters tall, with 5 legs and perfect reading of the game at all times, while our defenders are all one-legged headless-chicken midgets. And from there it comes the famous "That player is unproven since he doesn't play in a "real" league"... Which is BS, but we don't do much to proof otherwise. Then we must not forget that Neymar is being followed by Real Madrid and Barcelona, two teams that share one of the biggest rivalries in football both inside and outside the pitch... And Neymar is always praising Barcelona, saying that Messi is the best, he even said he would support Barcelona in the latest classico since his friends Daniel Alves and Adriano play there. As you can imagine, that didn't please the real madrid fans at all... Add that Robinho played for Real and left in midst of a lot of problems, and you can see from where the comparisons are coming from... The Real Madrid fans must be bitter! J/k Now for a real comparison between Neymar and Robinho, from someone that actually watched 90% of all the matches those players participated in for Santos. I would say that Robinho was even more "spetacular" than Neymar... He always liked to show off, but even so he had a very successful career with us. However, that's the only "advantage" Robinho has over Neymar. Neymar can finish 10x better than Robinho could in that time (I remember how many goals Robinho wasted due to his lack of concentration in front of goal, he still misses a lot nowadays), no wonder that he is two goals short of reaching the 100th goal mark. Surely Neymar still misses sometimes, but that's the exception, not the rule.He is faster than Robinho, and his dribbling is more effective... His passing and vision are better. He is also much more consistent, and even in a bad day he is able to lure many cards for the opponents. But the most important advantage Neymar has over Robinho is his family. Both were/are managed by Wagner Ribeiro (commonly now as Wagner Dinheiro, or "Wagner Money", due to his greed), but Robinho didn't have such a well-prepared, ever-present family like Neymar, so he was easily influenced by this agent to do anything for a possible move to Madrid... Since then , you can see that every time Robinho leaves a club, there is always some confusion involved. Robinho is older than Neymar, but ironically he is less mature than the rooster-haired youngster. In the beginning , Neymar was an arrogant brat, I must admit. He was always arguing with other players, sometimes more interested in tauinting his opponents than actually doing an effective move... This problem reached it's peak in that fateful match when he argued with Dorival Junior, that later would end up getting the coach fired over that incident. That day, he turned into the number one villain in Brasil. Rene Simões cowardly called him a monster ( really, is that something fair to say about a 18 year old kid? His career could've ended in that moment because of such a comment), the media made sure to persecute him, they even used specialists in lip-reading to see what Neymar talked about during matches, throwing rocks at him was the most popular sport in Brasil... But today he admits that none of that shook him more than to see his father and mother crying, saying that this wasn't the education they gave him... And with their support he overcame that and is now like a completely new player. Some say that all this persecution was good for Neymar since it molded him to what he is now, I still say it was too much but it was good to see that he has people that can lead him to the right path outside the pitch. And that's why |I believe that Neymar will always be successful, no matter where he goes. Conclusion: Neymar is a much better player, both inside and outside of the pitch... I still love both of them though, would love to have Robinho in our Centenario It seems like it could happen. P.S. : One more similarity I must add, is that both are overrated by the media. Let's make this clear: "overrated" is not an insult to a player's ability, but to those that rate it higher than it is. This is something that will always follow Santos youngsters I'm afraid, since the media is pretty stubborn on comparing them with Pelé. No matter how good a youngster is, there will NEVER be a second Pelé, so ANY player in history of football branded as "new Pelé" is being overrated
You can't really blame them to be honest especially when you see comments like Neymar is already better than Messi or he is in the top 5 players in the world. On top of that, Neymar has the same frame as Robinho did when he was his age. Neymar has a ridiculous amount of hype behind him just like Robinho did. The Brazilian media does not help players at all by calling every young prodigy the new Pele or new Ronaldo which leads to unrealistic expectations and then the player get labeled a flop when he doesn't meet those expectations. Also, they share the same agent and played for Santos. Robinho is not a flop IMO. He did not live up to expectation but he had a very solid career in Europe so far. Neymar has the potential to exceed Robinho. He is already a better player than Robinho was at the same age and he has more to his game than Robinho did. Now, all he needs is to improve his physique and iron out his game a little bit and when he decides to leave Brazil, go to the right environment that can help him mature and develop more as a player.
Kaka you ninja'd me. As you can see I edited the post at 1:55 PM to add the overrated issue and you posted at 1:51 PM. I agree. Messi is 24 IIRC, he had more time to improve and win trophies. He is building a very successful career with Barcelona. It's unfair to compare him with Neymar, who is starting now to write his history in football's book. Those people must learn to enjoy a player for what he is, there is no reason for comparisons... Most comparisons are devoid of any logic anyway, each person has different tastes and may like a player for different reasons. Plus you must consider the age of each player, the team he played for, on what era of football he played in, his sucesses, his failures,etc etc. Comparing players objectively is too hard. Just stick with what you like and be happy
People think Neymar is "another Robinho" becuase 1) Both are Santos flash, hype players, 2) both have slight builds, and 3) both have exhibited extremely selfish, petualant behaviour. So its easy for Europeans to put Neymar in the Robinho "mental box." I would personally add that they hope Neymar fails- lots of folks continually fear Brazil domination. And I agree, labelling Robinho as a failure is absolute nonsense; winning league titles in three leagues is very impressive.
To me the only comparisons is that they both played/play for Santos. Neymar at 19 is better than Robinho was at 19. Only time will tell what happens to Neymar. I also agree that Robinho's career is not a failure. 2 World Cups. A copa America title. 2 Confederation Cup titles and numerous club titles is not a failure at all. The hype he got is what labels him to be overrated which I think is nonsense.
Everyone expected Robinho to be like Pele, Ronaldo 9 and Ronaldinho, and Robinho didnt turn out to be what everyone expected him to be, so thats why everyone says he flopped. Now Neymar does have potential to be like Ronaldo 9 and Ronaldinho, and if he joins Barcelona and plays good than Neymar will reach everyones expectations. And back when Pele played the game was so different, defenders were so much weaker and slower. Sometimes I actually think Ronaldo 9 is the best player of all time, because he played in the 90s and early 2000s when the game and defenders were proper. Everyone expects a new Brazilian player to be like Pele, but I dont think that will ever happen because the game is different now. I think if Neymar, Ronaldo 9, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Messi played back in the 60s, they would probaly be like Pele was too or maybe even better. If Pele played today I dont think he will be as good. So my main point here is that there wont be another Pele because the game was too different back then to be compared with players today. So its better to compare Neymar to Ronaldinho and Ronaldo, because they played in the same time or era which means the game is the same as today. Im not exactly trying to say Pele isnt the best, Sometimes I just think Ronaldo is the greatest, and sometimes I think Pele is the greatest. So for now ill just say both Pele and Ronaldo 9 are the greatest player of all time. But if Ronaldo never got injured it could of been Ronaldo.
That's a common mistake to make, to compare different eras (it's called anachronism). It's like saying Napoleon lost the war because he didn't use ar-15 rifles and supersonic airplanes. It's worthy to remember that if the defenses were weak in Pelé's era, they were weak for everyone. Why then there was only ONE Pelé? Maybe they were weak only to him...? Wouldn't that mean he was quite a special player? Did you also know that cards were only introduced in football in 1970? "Screw those 4-4-2, 3-5-2, all this BS numbers, I will kick you until I break your leg and you will be out of the game, and the referee won't do a thing!" Seems a pretty good defensive strategy to me, Portugal did something similar to that to Pelé in 1966 and they effectively "marked him out of the tournament", since he was badly injured... Let me see your "proper defenders" do that! (click the video's title to watch it) [ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2t0q_how-did-they-stop-pele-in-the-1966_sport"]How did they stop Pele in the 1966 Cup? - Video Dailymotion@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video[/ame] Also, medicinal technology made a huge leap since then. At that times if you had one big injury like Ronaldo's for example, your career was over. Add that to the lack of cards and it's a miracle by itself that Pelé managed to play since he was 37. Oh btw, you wonder if Messi would do better than Pelé on his era, I answer you: he wouldn't even be a professional footballer, the hormonal treatment he received didn't exist back then! Football equipments also evolved a lot. Today an average ball is made of lightweight polymers, it weights a bit more than 400 grams. During Pelé's era, as they were made of pure animal leather, they could get 2x heavier during rain, reaching up to 4 kilos! Simple physics: Force = mass x acceleration. Assuming that the same force was applied, if the mass is ten times higher, then the acceleration will be ten times slower. So the acceleration of those powerful shots we see from C.Ronaldo nowadays would be 10 times slower!? Fascinating isn't it? Makes you wonder how strong Pelé was to kick such a heavy ball that hard. Lastly, the main ingredient for evolution is necessity. We've invented cars and airplanes due to our necesity of more efficient ways of moving around than our feet. Likewise, if today we can say that defensive play is much more evolved, it was due to the necessity of stopping players like Pelé, Garrincha, Cruyff (sp?), Maradona etc etc. Pelé wouldn't be as good today because of the evolved defenses of recent times? It's actually the other way around: defending wouldn't be as good as today if it wasn't for players like Pelé. And you know what? Everything I posted here could end up to be false if it really happened! Maybe Messi would be as good as he is today if he weighted 50 kgs, maybe if C.Ronaldo played with such heavy balls since he was a kid he would have a even harder shot, maybe the Brazilian Ronaldo wouldn't ever get hurt. Comparing different eras is hardly objective since there is always a lot of guesswork involved! But I know what I believe in.
Neymar deserved to be called a monster. It doesn't matter that he was an 18-year-old child. He got a grown man fired; Dorival Junior lost his income and living thanks to the kid's ego. Granted, there was reconciliation later, and I fault Santos' management for not having the spine to discipline Neymar. This is a reason that I am glad that the manager coaching Santos is Muricy Ramalho. The man's impeccable work with my team, when he led us to a three-peat in the Brasileirao, will never be forgotten. But in addition to his winning ways, he is a hardworking disciplinarian. His motto is “aqui é trabalho.” I wrote elsewhere on this site that with Ramalho, Santos will not play lackadaisically in Japan. Today, we saw Santos reach the final. Granted, they took the foot off the gas pedal at the end. But against Barcelona, Ramalho will have his team play the game of their careers, even if they do not win. Neymar is brilliant and he has incredible potential. But he needs a father figure-type coach who will drill seriousness into him. Michael Jordan had Phil Jackson in the NBA and the legendary Dean Smith in college. Pat Riley turned the early 1990s New York Knicks into a team of fearsome, yet hardworking, no-nonsense basketball players. And this is why I will always be a fan of Luiz Felipe Scolari - he had the guts to keep Romário off the 2002 team when all of Brazil outside of Rio Grande do Sul wanted Romário. And this is also why I am so thankful to Dunga. Dunga made mistakes but he very successfully got rid of all the oba-oba and palhaçada that marred our 2006 campaign. A few more inches on that 1st half shot by Kaká, and we would've been up 2-0 at halftime. I doubt we would've lost that game, then. From there, Uruguay, and then Spain. The result of ... “aqui é trabalho.” In any organization, the top sets the culture. Santos management did an awful job of this by blinking and firing Dorival Junior. Muricy however is another story - and Santos and Neymar are both better off as a result.
Daniel ... you really need to stop creating new threads about Neymar vs this Neymar vs that, how good will he be, blah blah blah. It's really tiring to see yet another thread about it. I am not really sure what you are trying to accomplish. Some people will only be convinced when and if he fulfills his potential and that's pretty fair. Just deal with it.
That's the enthusiasm of a new fan of Brazillian football, he is just showing his admiration and curiosity. Indeed, we can't flood forums with a lot of topics on the same subject, but the mods can organize and unite then in one topic. We even have a Neymar topic in this forum, I guess this will be moved there once it's movement calms down. But that is sound advice Daniel. If there is already a topic about Neymar, then use it to it's fullest instead of creating a new one, that way you make the mods work easier
Not only Pele who is actually the worst IMO but Ronaldo as well. Everybody needs to relax and just enjoy right now and wait and see.
Daniel I know you are new-ish here on BigSoccer, but I agree celito. If there's already a main thread on a player, let's keep the discussion about him in that thread. We will always be reading it and the discussion about the player will change depending on what we're talking about.
Well You answered this one very good, Bakaman I´d like to credit You for many good wise answers and nicely guiding the new enthusiast Daniel cause here I think he was a little out of line and I totally agree with You. To the main question, there are many similarities between these two players so it is not surprising that they are compared. Many people here have good thoughts and has described this well, I would say the main difference is really the finishing ability and regularity. Hopefully Neymar can learn from the mistakes of Robinho and also about what kind of attitude and focus that makes You successful, here I also would like for him to learn from Messi. I also would like to credit Century´s best for a great posting though the monster part was a little harsch but the hype goes both ways but i definately agrees that this young player needs support from the sidelines. On sunday its round two against Messi, in the great match-up towards the WC 2014, this is important lessons to learn from.
Robinho is a good player but hes no Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Pele and thats the reason why everyone says he flopped, because everyone thought Robinho was going to be like them but he didnt. In my opinion Neymar is already better than Robinho, and Neymar is only going to get better because he is only 19 years old. So I believe Neymar can be like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo 9, Messi. We cant really say anyone is going to be like Pele because back when he played it was different to now. Do you think people will still be saying Pele and Maradona were the best ever, in the next 25-50 years time? or will they be talking about players like Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo 9, Zidane, Ronaldinho, CR7. What do you think? who do you think will be regarded as the best player of all time in the next 25-50 years? In my opinion Ronaldo 9 is better than Messi. But you never know how Neymar and Messi will be in 10 years time, maybe (Neymar vs Messi) will be the new (Pele vs Maradona)
I really like to type long posts heh It's good since I can work on my english, it is self-taught so I'm sure that there will be some mistakes here and there, but I will keep improving... Until the day I finally decide to take some english classes, but I'm just too lazy
Robinho is one of the most successful Brazilians in Europe ever. He won titles at Real Madrid and AC Milan, and was a protagonist in both. The answer to this threads question is: because people are stupid!
He has never been the main guy in a team in Europe. In terms of success and impact he is way below Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Kaka, Roberto Carlos, Falcao, Lucio, Cafu, etc ...
lol Robinho flopped at Madrid and Manchester City. He's been doing faily good at Milan though. Actually "flopped" is harsh, I just will say he didn't do as well as expected with the hype he had.
Robinho was very influential for 2 seasons at Madrid when they won La Liga. I'd say that's his highlight in Europe. Although you'd have to say Madrid only won those 2 years because of the problems going on at Barcelona. Their team was still not that great considering their CL campaigns.
It is as said here difficult to compare players from different eras. In some aspects and ways it is possible but it can also be done wrongly and misguiding. It is of course even difficult to compare players individually in a team sport like football so it becomes subjective but it is fun and it can make us not forget about history which is easily done by younger generations. I would perhaps Put it like this: If Messi can continue this and become successful with the Argentine NT too, win a WC then he can really challenge Ronaldo and Maradona. If Ronaldo wouldn't have been sitting bench in 1994, wouldn't have mentally passed out in 1998 and wouldn't have gotten injured in 1999 then he might have challenged Pele for best Brasilian ever. No as several mentioned but he did score some important goals in CL though in the end Madrid failed there. In City he actually scored quite consistantly in the first season. But compared to many great Brasilians I aggree he has not done as well as expected as many say here. And he still continues to miss clear goals with nonchalance in Milan...