http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/ And I already know the Rethug response is gonna be to bring up the much-debunked OBL-Sudan story. First, it's been debunked. Second, September 11 changed everything. And I'm being serious. A preemptive strike before then would be harder to sell not just to the world, but to the American people. Hell, Clinton was bashed for postemptively (!) bombing those factories in the Sudan, by the left for (allegedly) hitting a non-target and by the right for engaging in military action to distract attention from Monica. But this is different.
So, let me get this straight, you're in favor of the US invading Iraq for WMDs? Or is that different somehow?
If this is true, it's inexcusable. However, if you're going to believe this report, there's your link between al-Qaeda and Iraq.
I watched this report last night on the NBC News during dinner and was stunned by it. Not the news itself but the fact that here was NBC nailing the Bush Administration. There was no waffling in the reporting either or trying to come up with an excuse. In fact, if anything, I felt like they were trying to nail Rice because her office had been the one turning down the Pentagon requests to strike. Is Bush now really in trouble with the media or is Rice going to be offered up as a sacrificial lamb.
1. Where is Kirma exactly in Iraq? I only ask because "northern Iraq" is often the term used to describe the Kurdish controlled part of the country. 2. There are no doubt al-Qaeda cells in the United States at this very moment. Does that provide a link between al-Qaeda and the Bush administration?
No, it hasn't. I enjoy it when the left guffaws about this every single time someone on the rights says this. However, if this is correct, then this is pretty much inexcusable. More information is needed.
Re: Re: Why did the Bushies pass up 2 chances to kill Zarqawi? Fair enough. It's been debunked by everybody except Newsmax.com
Re: Re: Re: Why did the Bushies pass up 2 chances to kill Zarqawi? Actually, no, it hasn't. The only real debunking was some jacknuts from the State Department, I think, saying we would have had to release Bin Laden had we taken the Sudanese up on their offer. But they offered us him, plus loads of AQ intel. And we didn't take any of it. EDIT: Just so I don't have to go through the whole ordeal again, just search for threads involving the Sudan.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did the Bushies pass up 2 chances to kill Zarqawi? Now I don't know this Ed Warner from a hole in the ground, but he's got quotes and sources that say you're wrong. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2002/07/mil-020710-3c1eb843.htm
It's long been known that an AQ affiliated group operated in Kurdish Iraq, OUTSIDE of Hussein's control. So it's NOT a link between AQ and Hussein. It's a link between AQ and our allies.
TWUB...I was sorta having fun with the "changed everything" line, but also kinda serious. For example, I wouldn't have supported an invasion of Afghanistan on Sept. 10, but support it now. I was trying to contrast the moral argument regarding preemptive hits on terrorists before and after Sept. 11, as well as the domestic and international support for such hits.
Yes, Khurma is in the Kurdish controlled part of the country, NNE of Halabja, in fact only a few miles from the Iranian border. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/sulaymaniyah_tpc.jpg You can see from the following map how far removed, in fact, the Halabja area was from the Iraqi regime forces: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_kurdish_areas_2003.jpg It is part of "Iraq", but not part of the "Saddam regime", which is exactly the sort of semantics that Bush liked to play, using "Iraq" instead of "Portions of Iraq under Saddam's control" to describe events, people, locations or connections, knowing full well the intellectual dishonesty of such semantics. EDIT: Note, I'm still checking on whether "Khurma" near Halabjah is the "Kirma" in question, which is usually referenced in news reports as "Kirma (ph)" meaning that was the reporters phonetic rendition of what the pentagon speaker said. EDIT: That's Khurmal, actually, not Khurma. Oops. I left out the "l", but otherwise was the correct place, in the vicinity of which was located the Ansar base.(http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/19708.pdf) EDIT: And if you read the section of that last link regarding Ansar, you'll find the sentence: "Many experts believed Baghdad-Ansar links were tenuous or even non-existent". And that's from a US State Department report for Congress.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did the Bushies pass up 2 chances to kill Zarqawi? Nice cherry-picking. What you quote is actually Susan Rice talking, who has a vested interest in this not being looked upon as a foul-up. Besides, this is a transcript of a Voice of America broadcast, apparently. The end: I stand by the previous thread. The story is pretty freaking far from "debunked".