A good deal ahead of the 2002 World Cup, I received a few Private Messages from die-hard Fire and Armaphiles in one day questioning my stance on Armas at that time. It seems that some believed, despite my having written on BS many, many times to the contrary, that I simply hate(d) Armas and want(ed) to see him on the first train out of the MNT camp. One particular dolt invited me to continue my joust with my windmills because, in his expert opinion, Arena would NEVER utilize a 5-man midfield where I have always felt Armas would be most effective. I wonder what this particular dimwit thought when Arena did exactly that in beating Mexico, and then shifting to that formation against Germany – two of the most important games in US Soccer history. Nice call. The fact is, as I have said over and over again, that I have always felt that Armas was, and at least for the next year (assuming full recovery), will continue to be our best pure defensive midfielder. Here is why Arena will continue to use him as long as Armas maintains his level of play: We have a significant weakness right now in our outside defense. I’ve reviewed the El Salvador game 3 times paying attention to the performances of Wade Barrett and Sasha Victorine. I then looked back at the reviews they received on Big Soccer and elsewhere. In my opinion, Barrett was not as good as most opined, and Victorine was not nearly as bad as most believed. Both played unspectacular, but solid matches against a weak opponent, but both have a lot of work to do if they want a spot in 2006. Our central defense looks stronger now than ever. The scorching of Califf here on Big Soccer after El Salvador, was again, IMO off base. I will not be surprised at all if he starts again in the next game in central defense alongside a maturing Bocanegra who will be hard for anyone to unseat by the time 2006 roles around. But regardless of the results of Arena’s Califf experiment, the spot is Pope’s to lose. And if Pope is down, and if Califf hasn’t secured a backup spot, the list of capable central defenders is actually quite deep. Sanneh, Berhalter, and even untried talents such as Suarez, Garcia, or possibly future prospects like Kelly Gray. I’m not sure what to make of Arena’s McCarty experiment. Ben Olsen – the resurgence of Beninho gives Bruce a true alternative at Right Mid. Chris Klein could step up and contend, but I believe Bruce places a much higher value on Ben than Chris. In fact, I would bet Steve Cherundolo has a better shot as a pure right winger than does Klein, because like Ben, he is a tireless defensive work horse who can put in a good cross. DaMarcus Beasley – when DMB emerged on the left, Bruce was given a long-term alternative that allowed for a winger on that side of the field. It gets better, as young talent like Brad Davis and perhaps even Justin Mapp could serve as backups before 06. Let’s not forget that Eddie Lewis is playing well and regularly for PNE in the English 1st division. All this comes down to one thing. The pieces are in place, and will be in the future, for a 5 man midfield. Playing a 3-5-2 allows us to play to some of our most significant strengths – great speed on the flanks, very strong central defenders good and experienced in zonal marking, and a pretty long list of defensive mids. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe that we’ll see a 3-5-2 all the time; in fact I don’t believe it will replace Arena’s favored 4-4-2. But there will be times when it makes sense. And when a 3-5-2 makes sense, Armas makes sense. I like Mastroeni. I like Mulrooney. I even like Vagenas. I would take all 3 of them over Armas if and when we play a 4-4-2 because I believe they all have better offensive – specifically attacking – upsides than Armas. But when it comes to pure grit, hustle, tireless work, defensive skill, and the simple distribution required of a d-mid in a 3-5-2, I think Chris Armas is the man for the job. He simply outclasses all the rest in these specific areas. And for that reason, like him or hate him, I think he deserves his spot on the National Team until age and injuries catch up to him. Outside of the 5-man midfield, specifically when Arena utilizes his preferred 4-4-2, I believe the other 3 candidates I mentioned deserve looks in the central midfield. I believe that as of right now the job is Pablo Mastroeni’s to lose, as his play in the World Cup was a huge part of the success we achieved there. Consider this stat – we won 2 games in the World Cup – Mastroeni started both of them. He is also at an age where he can be one of the pieces that Arena builds around leading up to 2006. But there will be situations where playing Chris Armas makes the most sense. I look forward to seeing him return – in those situations.
I agree, Armas will be a significant player for Arena in 06. He will be 06's Agoos. Let's just hope the ball bounces our way again to cover for this...again.
I agree 100% with the 3-5-2. Especially with Donovan and Mathis on the team... The team attacks better with a true acm. I also like Obrien and Matroeni as the DCMs. If Reyna is healthy than he can add depth to this position. I also prefer the bunker and counter style. 7 players back on defense with Donovan, Mathis, and one other to attack with. Strong goalkeeping with weak possession style backs encourage bunkering and countering.
Armas will get his caps, but Mastro played well in a 3-5-2 for the Rapids, he's better on the ball, IMO he outclasses Armas in every aspect of the game. Armas did a lot of dirty work for us, and should be applauded, but he will not be our starting D-mid for '06...
i may be wrong, but i don't believe that armas will make the team in '06. we owe him a great debt, and he'll still get caps, but he is a relic of the past when we had to stick athletic hardworking people with little skill in certain positions. i hope we'll be way past that in '06. we should have maybe 3 or 4 new guys who are better than armas by then!!
I agree with most of Nutmeg's analysis, with this provisio: Armas will play a significant role during qualifying but not during the finals. Sachin
I disagree with Nutmeg. Armas' offense skill and passing ability are underated. Currently, he is better than Mulrooney and Vagenas. Mastronei is on pair with Armas, but have less positional sense and a better dribbling ability. One reason Armas cannot go forward too often because he has to sheild weak US center defense. When US has better center defenders coming up, he may still to be a backup d-mid behind Reyna with Donovan the designed a-mid for 2006.
Armas may play leading up to the qualifiers and may be on the squad in 04/05, but I don't think he'll still be one of our top two options at that position in 2006 -- maybe he'll be the Richie Williams of the next cycle.
I think it all depends on how he comes back from his injury. It's hard to overcome an ACL injury at 30 years old, even for a professional athlete. My only question is if he'll contribute to our WCQers. I think counting on a 34 year old Armas at the 2006 WC would call for lowered expectations of our performance. I wish him the best in his recovery and for his performance with the Fire, but the guy's maxed out as a player. He's overmatched against the more skilled teams at the international level.
Why do so many people think defending isn't a skill. Many times (not just in this thread), you'll see someone say that Pablo has more skill, and he does--offensively. Armas is a very aggressive, and skillfull defender. He doesn't often get beat one-on-one, and not too many teams pass around him, either. When he's in the game, the ball gets worked down the outside a whole lot more than when he's not. You can all tell me that i'm wrong and whatever, but even if Bruce and myself were the only two to realize this, i'd be happy, because at least he'll be in there, breaking down other teams attacks and helping our defense out immensely.
I agree with Nutmeg's basic point that the 3-5-2 will probably be used more in this cycle than last -- the emergence of Beasley, playing time for Lewis and the return of Olsen being big factors as he points out. I also agree, though I have resisted this in the past, that Armas would be a better fit in a 3-5-2 than a 4-4-2. I still think that Mastroeni is probably slightly ahead of Armas even in 3-5-2 and the Armas is probably still ahead of Vaegnas and Mulrooney in a 4-4-2. Other nits are that I think that both Victorine and Barrett played well against El Salvador and that Califf was awful.
I think it is safe to say that as of right now (assuming a full return from injury for Armas) that Chris Armas is a better defender. Pablo has more offensive skill. Pablo is also more of a well rounded midfielder. Pablo is also substantially better in the air. Pablo is probably slightly more prone to a mistake. I completely agree with Nutmeg. 3-5-2 Armas is an important component to our team. In a 4-4-2, I prefer Mastro based entirely on his better offensive skills and his height. That being said, an injury to Mastro or just a solid return from injury puts Armas back into the picture to a large degree. When it all comes down to it BA just likes Chris. The only chance Armas has of not being a big part of our run up for qualifying is if he can't recover from his injury. Other than that, he will be a big part of the team. 2006 is so far away, I would hate to speculate, but I can see both sides with regards to BA dropping him or bringing him in. I think if he is close to making the pool, BA will give him a bit of sentimental shot ala Agoos.
When we get beat as a National team, is it usually through the center of the pitch or down the flanks? I don't have any stats, and could be totally off base, but I seem to remember us getting beat a ton down the sides, and very rarely getting burned through the center of the field; regardless of who the D-Mid was. I think our center backs are MUCH stronger then our outside backs, meaning Sanneh, Hedjuk, Lewis, or whoever was put out there the past year or more. So basically i'm questioning why you think us pushing the attack to the outside is such a good thing, when it's been our weakpoint.... you funnel teams towards your strengths not towards your weakness.
Who is Nintendo? I really think Chris IS the Richie Williams of this cycle, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but his best form is years behind him and Mastroeni's just younger and better. If you're going to play with two anchor mids, O'Brien and Mastro are a perfect combination. But it sounds to me like people are underrating Richard Mulrooney. He's very good. The "Best American D-mid" baton gets passed around quite a bit, but it was his in 2001. Now for those keeping track, I do think Armas has a good run left in him. (Kinda like how the Atari 2600 got all those cool Activision games and Yar's Revenge and Vanguard when Colecovision was taking over.)
I'm not so sure about us using a 352 as a basic formation yet, though I do believe Arena will try to see if it will work. I need to think this one out a bit more though before I can give much of an informed opinion. Armas? As Sachin sort of says, (and I see Noah also says) he's in that Goos'/Llamosa/Frasier/Williams position of if he'll hold up for four more years. Until he shows he's over the hill, he'll get his share of playing time though. Yeah, right wing is Olsen's to lose. Dolo will play a role also.
Side note: I am not in agreement with those that see Steve Cherundolo in a midfield role on the rights, regardless of whether it is a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2. He simply lacks the offensive punch for most situations for a team as good as I hope the USMNT becomes. At least I hope that is the case.
Eck. The second I posted this I regretted the title of the thread, which I cannot change. What the title should have read is, "Why Chris Armas will play a significant role in the run up to 2006." Oh well, on to some of the responses. Heywood Jablohmi - "I agree, Armas will be a significant player for Arena in 06. He will be 06's Agoos. Let's just hope the ball bounces our way again to cover for this...again." Sachin - "I agree with most of Nutmeg's analysis, with this provisio: Armas will play a significant role during qualifying but not during the finals." Serie Zed - "Armas may play leading up to the qualifiers and may be on the squad in 04/05, but I don't think he'll still be one of our top two options at that position in 2006..." Like I said in my first post, I think Chris will be a part of each and every camp, and will even see significant game time, as long as health and age don't catch up to him. They will, and if I had to bet, I would bet they catch him before the 2006 World Cup. If they do, I hope Arena learns from his Agoos mistake and cuts Chris loose and thanks him for his time served. ************************************************************************************** luvdagame - "i may be wrong, but i don't believe that armas will make the team in '06.... i hope we'll be way past that in '06. we should have maybe 3 or 4 new guys who are better than armas by then!!" Could happen. We have some very good players coming up in the position, the best of which just might be Ricardo Clark from Furman. Everyone keeps talking about the Eskandarian draft in MLS, but I firmly believe that Clark will be the player that seperates himself in years to come. Stay tuned... ************************************************************************************** USA4Life - "I agree 100% with the 3-5-2. Especially with Donovan and Mathis on the team..." Actually, I thought about that as well. We have a pretty good depth of players who are comfortable in the hole behind the two strikers, including Mathis and Donovan, but even a guy like Kirovski, who has begun the long process of resurrecting his club career with a few good games in Birmingham. Don't forget that Martino is a very good fit for this type of role as well, as is, gasp, Freddy Adu. A strong pure attacking mid makes a 3-5-2 an even better fit. ************************************************************************************** He's in Fashion - "Armas will get his caps, but Mastro played well in a 3-5-2 for the Rapids, he's better on the ball, IMO he outclasses Armas in every aspect of the game." Actually, I have to admit that if Armas is better than Mastroeni in a 3-5-2, it aint by much. I realized this was one of my weaker arguments when I thought about the Mexico game and the superb performance of Pablo. But I still believe that Chris is a marginally better decision maker in that scenario, although Pablo has the guts and the ability to take more chances in the attack than did Chris. ************************************************************************************** Shaster - Armas' offense skill and passing ability are underated. Currently, he is better than Mulrooney and Vagenas. Mastronei is on pair with Armas, but have less positional sense and a better dribbling ability. One reason Armas cannot go forward too often because he has to sheild weak US center defense. When US has better center defenders coming up, he may still to be a backup d-mid behind Reyna with Donovan the designed a-mid for 2006." I think Armas is very good with one touch passes typically into safe play. In that position, Armas usually does a great job in keeping his team out of danger. I disagree that he is now or that he ever was as good as Mulrooney, Vagenas, and Mastroeni in adding to his team's attack, especially in a 4-4-2, but there we will disagree. I also disagree that Armas does better than Pablo in positioning. The one significant difference I noticed the second Pablo stepped into the MNT DMid position is that Pablo did a lot less ball-chasing than Chris. He held his position and helped keep team shape. If you have tapes, I'd invite you to go back and review 4 games. Watch Pablo's defensive work - specifically his commitment to staying within the zonal system - against Portugal and Mexico, and then compare that with Chris' performances against Germany and Ireland, where Chris's poor positioning and overcommitment to the ball helped lead to opponent goals and US losses in both games. The one area where I hope Pablo improves is that I think at times he's too quick to use the slide tackle. It hasn't cost him or the MNT yet, but it could in the future. ************************************************************************************** fatboy15 - "Why do so many people think defending isn't a skill." Good question. I think it comes down to the fact that of all the qualities of a player, the cerebral skills of defending are the hardest to rank neatly on a piece of paper, or on a soccer board. The best students of the game pick up immediately on a defender's abilities. But Chris does have an excellent defensive brain, and carries out his generally good decisions with very good defensive ability. There is a lot of skill that is involved in defense, but don't kid yourself, either. A lot of what defending entails is simply pure effort, and like Armas or not, it would be hard to argue that Chris doesn't give a complete effort every time he steps on the field. ************************************************************************************** flanoverseas - "Proof yet again that Karl Keller IS Nutmeg." Um, no. ************************************************************************************** Martin Fischer - "Other nits are that I think that both Victorine and Barrett played well against El Salvador and that Califf was awful." Hi Martin. I disagree with a lot of people on Califf, but what specifically made you think Califf was awful? I'm just curious. I thought Victorine and Barrett were good, but that there is a ways for both of them to go. They've got 4 years - it could happen. ************************************************************************************** MLSNHTOWN - "I think if he is close to making the pool, BA will give him a bit of sentimental shot ala Agoos." I hope not. If Armas isn't one of the best 2-3 DMids in 2006, he should not be on team - period. Agoos wasn't one of our best defenders in 2002, and it cost us. Hopefully Arena learned the lesson. **************************************************************************************
I take it you missed the German and Irish friendlies. Chris' great against lower tier teams but when they start hitting mid tier teams he's just average.
I didn't mean we should try to force them outside. i mean that when armas is in the center, the other team goes to the outside more because its harder to get throught the center. unless i just misunderstood you, and you're saying we should put a weaker d-mid in the center to try and force the attack to run into our center defenders, but that'd be rediculous.
No i'm saying that having Chris Armas in the middle isn't the reason teams get pushed out side, they go out there by choice because it is our weakness; basically i'm saying your point about Chris Armas forcing the other teams to the outside isn't valid that's all, sorry if I didn't make that clear the first time around.
Hi Nutmeg. Good solid analysis and, even more, it started some rational, useful analysis by others. With respect to Califf, I have generally been favorably impressed by him (though I don't see him anywhere near Pope's class). However, El Salvador ripped us down the middle several times, despite not having the ball much. A couple of times, it was Califf chasing after, which as a central defender was not good. Without a tape, that is the best I can do.
Ironically, this difference in style is a big reason I think Armas WILL have a role in qualifying, and will possibly challenge Mastro for the job. Arena likes this style of player. He depended so much upon Richie Wiliams at Virginia, ditto at DC, then when he got to the US level he could pluck Williams Mach II: Chris Armas. Chris and Richie are buzzers, though they don't distribute well anymore. Hopefully Mastro gets some of that mobility back playing mid for Colorado and the US.