Why are people talking like Gooch is one of our best players?

Yeah I love the way Boca plays , but I do think he might be a little overlooked in the build up for this world cup. If Cory Gibbs is healthy and in form , it loooks like him and Gooch might be starting centerbacks,but I hope Boca can lift his play in the premiership, and possibly start at left back , because we are having some problems right there as of late.

 

No, but I did read Bobcat's Revenge by Claude Balls.

 

I just feel like we have brass balls in the back the way we never have before. He could be a prototype American defender.

 

I know de Ballsack, asked for no pics, but the one where Gooch is standing next to Landon and Kasey is all that needs to be said. We've had difficulty with european teams due to our lack of size, and Gooch is one part of the answer for that. Our current roster of defenders can handle Concacaf, having defenders like Gooch, takes us to the next level of competing with european teams on european soil.

And, the BS hype has been mostly due to Omikell. He has been promoting Gooch ever since he went to Belgium and there was alot of skepticism until about the time Gooch made the Jupiler XI. As for Azteca, wasn't that Gooch's 2nd appearance and first start?

 

His career yellow count for Standard is 12 in 56 games, so one every 5.5 games.

If you want to dig deeper, he has four yellows in 940 or so MNT minutes, one every 240 or so minutes, meaning one every 2.75 games or so. Two of those came in one game so in 2005, he had two yellows and no reds in 840 minutes of play, translating to one yellow in every 420 minutes or one about every five games.

So you personally might think that he's a red card risk, but the statistics show that, take away one MNT match, he gets a yellow about every five matches. Call me crazy, but I'll trust the historical perspective of statistics that say he's been red carded exactly three times in 60-some games at the club or national team level a tad mroe than your personal opinion since you obviously started this thread to shine a critical light on Gooch.

I think he's a hell of a player with a lot of upside. Time will tell how good he is, but he seems to rise to the challenge every time he's given an opportunity to shine. I hope the World Cup is another example.

Just to add, in the Bruce Arena era, the US has had 12 red cards in 127 matches. I have seen the worry of certain people being red card worries thrown around these boards from time to time, but a historical perspective shows that we just simply don't get that many red cards to make it a serious worry.

The moment for me was when he subbed in for Pope at the end of the Panama qualifier in DC. The size difference in the two was plainly obvious. That's not everything, but you can't teach size.

 

Not to break my arm patting myself on the back , but some of us posters have been pimping him since before he went to Belgium.

Cheifly myself and Sandon Mibut.

Since Gooch is a local guy (DC suburbs), we've had an eye on him for about 4 or 5 years now.

A lot of people talk of Landon/DMB from that first Bradenton class as the jewels (and they are) but to me Gooch was the player that really stood out in that U-17 tournament and he continued to impress thru his two years at Clemson as well as the U-20 WC in Argentina and during the few times he was released to play for the Olympic qualifiers.

 

A quick note RE: hype and BigSoccer.

We're fans. This is a fan forum. We don't have any actual influence on any player or game when we're sitting at our computers. Gooch is exciting for fans to root for because he brings a bad-ass quality to his on-field persona (don't think any of us know him personally) that is fun to root for and that we didn't have anyone to play that role. Now we have a bad-ass that seems to fit in the Charles Barkley/LT/Mike Tyson vein and we haven't had one before. So it's fun to talk about. It won't change anything.

Read Bruce's quotes about him to figure if he's "one of our best players" and after that we'll just have to wait and see what he does.

 

Exactly . I cant wait to see him whomp on Koller next summer

 

When East Asian players are taller than your team, there's a problem. Perhaps it's an overgeneralization, but in the US your bigger, more athletic men are going into every sport but soccer. I hope Gooch is the shape of things to come, but until you can score multi-million dollar contracts for the players, I don't think we're gonna see too much of his size...

 

I'm thankfully new to this discussion and I can see someone touting Bocanegra over Onyewu but you got to be careful not to put too much weight on Boca's England play one way or another when you are thinking who should start in central defense, Gooch or Boca. Basically in 2005 it looked like in Arena's eyes very much like Onyewu became an everyday starter in central defense for the Nats in 2005.

I say this for two reasons. The first is because he started every game he was called in for- in central defense. That's big. Other players were moved to accommodate him. In retrospect the Gold Cup was huge for Gooch.

However it must be said that you can't project he will start as a slam dunk certainty in Germany. Why? A major player in the central defender race, Gibbs, was hurt last year, and he'll be back in time for Germany and also because Arena was really giving Bocanegra an extended trial at left back. An unsuccessful trial one might add as all indications point to Arena now going with a combination of Eddie Lewis and Hedjuk/Spector/Albright and maybe Pierce there.

Still, 2005 saw an important trend: When Onyewu gets a callup, he starts. The same can't be said for Bocanegra.

Go back again to the Boca at left back experiment for my second reason why Gooch is ahead of Boca in the central defender pecking order. One trend by Arena is that when he has a position that's thin he will move players from other positions into it and see if they can adapt. However, and this is important, he rarely moves a starter from another position. This is true at left back where he's had Boca, Lewis, Convey, Spector, and Albright all play there. To me this is the surest thing to show that Boca is not projected as a starter in central defense by Arena when all the players are accounted for.

None of this of course will convince someone who's wary of Onyewu for some reason. "A card risk" has been brought up and has been found to be well, unfounded. But really you don't need a reason to be wary. Is Gooch perfect? Of course not. Has anyone outplayed him in 2005 in central defense? Just as obvious- no. That includes what Boca did there as well.

 

not to nitpick, but gooch and boca don't even play the same side - gibbs should probably be considered bocanegra's competition for a place in the starting lineup

 

Gooch is a monster in back. He has size and speed, and can help make up for deficiencies in the surrounding defenders. This is critical if BA surrounds him with slow defenders like Berhalter and Bocanegra, or short defenders like Hejduk and Cherundolo.

Just the sight of him in central defense is an imposing sight for the opponent. Just ask Borgetti.

Woops, I think Jared just had an accident in bed because of the Onyewu nightmare.

 

Ursula wrote: "This is true at left back where he's had Boca, Lewis, Convey, Spector, and Albright all play there. To me this is the surest thing to show that Boca is not projected as a starter in central defense by Arena when all the players are accounted for."

First, thanks for sharing some interesting (and factual) information on this debate. I do think that the question of whom Arena starts in the back is one of the most intriguing developments of the next few months.

Some questions to ponder:

While Gooch is athletic, with excellent size and speed, does he have the saavy of Berhalter?

Who is the best pairing at central defense? Gooch and Pope? Berhalter and Gibbs? Boca and the list goes on?

Will Arena keep the same pairing throughout, or will he vary it based upon the opponent?

 

It looked throughout the end of qualifying that BA was trying out the Gooch-Berhalter combo , which I think worked pretty well , but I think when Gibbs get back , it might push Berhalter farther down on the depth chart.
I think during the WC the central defense pairing might be based on the opponent , but also on injuries and cards, and getting the best players we can onto the field.

 

I fully expect it to vary based upon the opponent, but Gooch will start all 3 games. My guess is that Gibbs gets the start against the athletic Czech and Ghanian front lines, while a wilier player, either Boca or Berhalter, goes against Italy.

 

I agree. I don't see Berhalter as a starter unless there are injuries to the front line defensive starters. Onyewu has proven that he deserves one of these positions.

 

Combining the club and country stats, he averages a yellow more than once every three games. So why do you bring up two in the first round?

No, noty at all. He learned from his lesson, maybe. Something bad happened. He corrected it.

You're cute when you're defensive after part of your point is shredded to bits.

The red was a result of two yellows. Since then he has had an exemplary discinple record in international play.

Next time before you try and assign labels to players, you should do the research yourself. If you're too lazy to do that, don't take offense when others point out the flaws in your theories.

 

Welcome to BS Right now, the winds are blowing in favor of the Gooch and he's the second coming. Plus he plays in Europe so he must be good ... right?

That can all change in a heartbeat.

 

Interesting thread.

To be honest, I had Gooch & Gibbs mentally inked in as a WC starter. But when the latest SoccerAmerica stated that those guys would likely be backups, I paused. SoccerAmerica does a pretty good job of getting its finger on Bruce's current pulse. Thus, I believe that Arena is indeed probably leaning toward experience in the middle, that is Pope, Berhalter, and/or Bocanegra.