Why are people talking like Gooch is one of our best players?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Honore de Ballsac, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    Honore, ummm...if Donovan, Reyna, JOB, Gooch, and EJ arent one of our best players, then who is?

    Gooch is a certain starter, btw. Absolutely certain. Like Reyna. Like Donovan. Like JOB. (all if healthy)

    Oooh, I see Pope was never all that, and the Joe Max comment was a backhanded compliment at best.

    So, English fan? Mexican?
     
  2. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gooch is a product of the BS hype machine.

    That is not to say that Gooch isn't very good.
    That is not to say that Gooch isn't the best central defender for the US.
    That is just to say that BS takes players and runs with them.

    I don't get to watch his league games so I really don't know how well he's doing.

    His potential is huge though and that is why there is such buzz on big soccer.

    We'll know more after Germany.
     
  3. galperin

    galperin Member

    Feb 1, 2001
    Maineville, OH
    I think most BS'ers have penned Gooch as a sure starter, but I am not so sure that Bruce has. Gooch is still pretty raw, and while LD and DMB were raw as well in 02, they were not playing in the back like Gooch does. Playing raw in the back is much more dangerous than playing raw up front.

    I like Gooch and he has tremendous potential. We'll see though what happens in the coming months.
     
  4. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    :rolleyes:
     
  5. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    What is a jockrider? I'd ask my mom, but she's at the store. Is that some sort of man-marking?
     
  6. Galaxian

    Galaxian Member

    Oct 30, 2005
    Newport Beach, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A little while back I read a comment by BA saying that 2005 has seen the emergence of Oguchi Onyewu who will play a major part in next summers WC. I think BA knows the potential of Gooch and knows he can be a great defender for us next summer and in years to come. Sorry I can't remember the article.
     
  7. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In 56 games for Standard, Gooch has two red cards. Granted, both came this year, but he hardly has a long and illustrious history of sending offs.

    He has played 11 matches for the U.S. and has one red card. He has not seen red in all of 2005 for the U.S.

    I hardly call those statistics "a red card risk," but I know the folly of throwing facts into a discussion like this.
     
  8. AminKor02

    AminKor02 New Member

    Jun 20, 2002
    Answer: Perhaps people remember Agoos? The bar on defense was set pretty low in '02...
     
  9. swilso01

    swilso01 Member

    Feb 25, 2004
    Philly
    I think that one of the reasons that people (or maybe just me) are high on Gooch is that he seems to be one of the few true athletes that the USMNT has seen in a long time. He is big, powerful, agile, and quick for his size and these types of physical specimens in America usually find their way to the gridiron or the basketball court. That is a pretty big generalization, but for the ~15 years that I have been following the Nats, there have been few players to roll through that have Gooch's qualities.

    He is raw...and the performance in Azteca makes me nervous about big games in front of hostile crowds...but I see him starting in Germany.
     
  10. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.

    Please feel free - what's his yellow count? Would the term "card risk" apply in your opinion? One out of 11 is high isn't it?
     
  11. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Because he's 6'4, 220 lbs, has good speed, good technical ability, is one of the top 2-3 defenders in an above-average European league for a Champions League club, and is only 23. Gooch will be our starter at CB thru 2014 at least.
     
  12. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He 6' 4 and brings presence
     
  13. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Which makes it one step higher in quality than BigSoccer.

    Seriously, at least Sam's Army knows which games he's played in. How many posters in this thread could name them all? You know darn well most of the people talking about him either way have seen him about twice.
     
  14. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    mark my words: if koller is in germany on june 12th, gooch is a starter - furthermore, he is probably the only man we have who has the speed/strength combo necessary to negate toni physically
     
  15. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    this hits it on the head. as others have noted, his play seems to improve with each game. in addition to his marking and physical stature, he shows more composure on the ball than the typical US center back, and seems to be looking to start the attack with a smart pass. is he there yet? interesting question, because might that not mean that he can't improve further? he's obviously going to get better, as that's what he's shown everytime he goes out there, but he's more than ready for the task ahead and certain to be in the lineup as long as he's available.
     
  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And when he got his red card for the USMNT, I seem to recall the two yellows coming on a handball and a questionable foul call.
     
  17. shinzui

    shinzui New Member

    Dec 2, 2005
    Gulf Shores
    I'm expecting a red card from Gooch in the WC. Tomas Rosicky or someone will make a tackle dislocating a shoulder or breaking an ankle and there won't be a yellow or even a call. But, Gooch will look at Totti and he'll collapse onto the ground as if he was mugged and Gooch will get a straight red.
     
  18. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    I only watched Toni for few highlights. How strong is him? I though Berhalter handled Viera pretty good last time, so was Gibbs handled RVN. Do you think both of them have a chance?
     
  19. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    if Gibbs is healthy, he starts alongside Gooch in the middle. Berlhalter likely goes, in my opinion, but will be a closer call, and his playing time if he's there will depend upon the health and cards received by others.
     
  20. MikeR

    MikeR Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Indiana
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One out of 11 is meaningless due to insufficient sample size. If you polled 11 people Bush might have an approval rating over 50%. Check back after Gooch has played 30 or 40 games.
     
  21. rolfefan1717

    rolfefan1717 New Member

    Nov 2, 2005
    Dayton Ohio
    a bigsoccer press agent. wow. thats classic.
     
  22. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    basically what blech said, although i think berhalter is all but a lock to go to germany

    and toni? yes, he is very strong AND moves well - van nistelrooy is an okay physical comparison because they move in a similar manner, but toni is a fair amount larger (approx. 1 1/2 inches & 20-25 pounds)
     
  23. Deimos

    Deimos Member

    Apr 23, 1999
    Louisville, KY, USA
    Do you mean this comment USA Today?
    Did you see this part?
     
  24. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Not particularly. In addition to the sample size problem, one yellow card every 11 matches isn't even very high for a defender to begin with. MLS's league 'leaders' in cautions get one every 3 to 4 matches.

    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/stats/index.jsp?club=mls
    Code:
    CAUTIONS (YELLOWS)
    PLAYER                           TEAM    GP  CAUT
    Michael Bradley                  MET     30     9
    Jose Burciaga Jr.                KC      31     9
    Clarence Goodson                 DAL     29     9
    Amado Guevara                    MET     26     9
    Alain Nkong                      COL     28     9
    Shalrie Joseph                   NE      31     8
    Ronnie O'Brien                   DAL     28     8
    Seth Trembly                     RSL     22     8
    Simo Valakari                    DAL     28     8
    Chris Wingert                    CLB     27     8
    
    The Premiership is a broadly similar story:
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/playerdiscipline?league=eng.1&year=2005&cc=5901

    And what harm, exactly, does it do to our WC effort if Gooch gets a caution every 11 games, meaning he accumulates about 0.45 of them during the WC if we made the QFs?
     
  25. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    But wait, didn't Gooch get something like 4 cards in 10 games for the US?
    Are people counting an 86th minute appearance as a game? Awaiting correction here.

    Someone suggested one of the cards was unfair, but I would not have been surprised if Gooch was carded in Columbus either.

    I said he seemed like a red card risk - he does to me. He'd still be in my current first eleven (for what that's worth) but not without real concerns.

    I also look at somebody like Boca (who I also thought we overrated in early days) and am a bit surprised to see people agree that Boca is below Gooch on the depth chart. Yeah he gets benched, his flaws may have been exposed, but he's regularly defending some of the superheroes of world soccer.
     

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