They were more afraid of violating a technicality (once play is restarted, you can't go back to a previous decision) than let a rightful goal be given. It blows the mind. Remember during the COVID season when they spent 2 hours drawing lines on the field to find one of Mane's ass hairs offside to deny Henderson's winner at the Bitters? Now we have the quickest non check and all this bullshit that's followed.
It's documented that we lost one point here due to admitted incompetence. If at the end of the season we miss a league position due to this missing point I'd tote up the financial loss and sue the league for it.
but they can, and have, in previous games! games where play has been stopped because the VAR finally realized a call was missed (a pen) at the other end .... minutes earlier ... and the pen was awarded retroactively. the irony is overwhelming: for years now, PGMOL has bragged and promoted VAR as the process that will allow game officials to correct "clear and obvious errors" - because of course not doing so would be totally unfair to one of the teams and run contrary to the spirit of the game. but they cannot even correct THEIR OWN "CLEAR AND OBVIOUS" FUKKING ERRORS !!
Back in 2016 Sam. Former EPL Ref Mark Halsey Says He Was Told to Say He Missed in-Match Incidents | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report
They are allowed to extend either half of the game (without restarting the clock) to make a VAR-granted penalty the last kick of the game if it was missed by the head ref in real time. Players and managers are instructed that even if the final whistle blows a VAR check for a penalty can bring them back to allow a pen to be taken. So this example of "restarting" the match after the final whistle, it's just not the same as if the ref/VAR were to try to go back and "re-VAR" a previously-made offside check. Penalties have this carve-out by the law, offside calls do not. It seems like an oversight in the language of the laws/protocol... but sometimes rulesets don't account for this insane level of miscommunication. It's not something that is always planned for in the language. It will be now... it has to be.
They have to switch to the rugby protocols at the least. Had they been in place for the yesterday, the conversation would have gone as follows: Ref: On field decision is to deny the goal for offside. Is there any reason to award the goal? VAR: You’re having a f.ucking laugh you f.ucking turd, he was a mile onside. Ok, maybe VAR wouldn’t have replied quite that way, but had the ref worded his enquiry as rugby does, as above, there would be absolutely no confusion. That’s not to say that rugby protocols will cure all ills, but they’d go a long way to forcing VAR and refs to be an awful lot more precise and definitive.
I agree, I think more transparency and mandated over-communication is the way forward. At least until they get SAOT in.
My understanding is that VAR gets the pre-broadcast feed, as in the feed direct from the ground minus graphics and commentary.
what utter nonsense. negating a winning goal due to a totally screwed up offside call is OK, while a missed penalty call - the outcome of which may or may not have any affect whatsoever on the outcome of the game - is more important? and these rules are put in place by the "expert professionals"? jesus wept.
imo they should suspend the use of VAR until next year, and use the time to fix what's broken, most importantly restaffing to replace incompetent, untrained VAR personnel and field officials.
Omid Djalili slaps down Gary Neville for 'nonsense' comments on Liverpool statement This is the first time a goal has been wrongly chalked off on an offside decision. "Football fans have reacted because you’re either offside or you’re not. As lovers of the game, we have every right to know exactly what went wrong. That it doesn’t happen again is also how the game evolves." The London-born comedian, who is a lifelong Chelsea supporter and a self-admitted Ipswich Town follower, then provided an analogy and demanded full transparency of Saturday's events, starting with publication of the officials' conversations. "As an extreme example, if airlines said after every air crash 'it’s a f@@k up! we’ve all done it' there would be no airline industry. The first phase of an investigation (yes the analogy fits as chalking off a good goal for offside is metaphorically a ‘crash’) is to obtain the data relevant to the mistake. "For planes, it’s the black box flight recorder. For Premier league football it’s the conversation between VAR & the referee. This needs to be released into the public domain. The fact that they haven’t means something very wrong has taken place. "@LFC had a good goal wrongly chalked off against a close rival when down to 10 men which could have a massive impact on the season. As a club they have every right to ask for transparency - as in find out exactly what went wrong - and take it from there. "In a post-VAR world we are in uncharted territory. Any outcome after such a mistake is on the table, even replaying the game, who knows? But an apology for 'human error' - which is precisely why VAR was introduced to guard against - now being used to draw a line under the incident? Not a chance in hell." Omid Djalili slaps down Gary Neville for 'nonsense' comments on Liverpool statement - Liverpool Echo
Everyone already agreed VAR and ref mistakes do not justify replaying matches. The clubs and league have accepted that. By definition. They can do their PR when things don't go there way all they want... but they have no legal or sporting case to replay anything. These are the rules to which everyone is agreed. VAR isn't leaving for the season (or ever). Everyone agreed to the rules beforehand, can't just throw everything out because a horrible mistake occurs. That solves nothing. If anything, it would only further invalidate the matches that have all occurred so far -- 1 league season isn't going to be played with 2 different sets of rules.
Replaying a match? Thats his opinion and I too doubt that will happen. However Liverpool FC have been robbed and cheated out of a goal which could cost a title , CL qualification or millions . It happened in front of millions of ppl around the world so what is a fair resolution for being robbed because of incompetence?
Fair resolution is you change the laws when it makes the most sense to change the laws. Apart from that, punish the people who made the egregious mistake and try to do better. That's about it. Any proposed rules or VAR change is going to have to be voted in by everyone, and maybe will still only take effect in January as to not diminish the competitive integrity of the many dozens of matches that have been completed during this first half of the season. I don't know the specific rules, maybe they can call an emergency meeting and vote to radically alter VAR for the next matchday? I don't think they can, though... to me that creates a whole other level of cluster******** which seems like it would be impossible to detangle.
And I think thats what Liverpool will pursue ie reforms and changes to the current protocols especially the one which doesn't permit the ref to stop the game and correct a significant reffing error. However personally I would not rule out a law suit against PGMOL incompetence potentially costing Liverpool millions. Lets see what those audio recordings show.
But it isn't one egregious mistake, it's a pattern of incompetent applications of the system. It suggests significant changes need to be made to improve it to minimum league standards. How its done is open to discussion. But it needs to be done. It's going to turn the league into a farce at this rate.
Mail Sport can reveal that senior figures at PGMOL were split over whether the audio should be made public. They are now leaning towards a release of the full exchange, although talks will be held on Tuesday over when to release it because a review is ongoing into Saturday's incident. Senior figures at the referees' organisation disagreed over whether the conversation between referee Simon Hooper, VAR Darren England and his assistant Dan Cook should be revealed. Some felt they should 'own' the mistake by showing immediate transparency, but that view met with opposition. Referees' group are set to release audio of the VAR blunder which saw Liverpool denied a goal in 2-1 defeat at Tottenham - after PGMOL chiefs were split over whether to grant Reds' request | Daily Mail Online
I disagree it's turning into a farce, unless you're focused on social media outrage... but there needs to be changes. Yes. I agree. All I'm saying is whatever change you're talking about needs to be approved by the clubs, so it needs to be tethered to reality. Because of that, I can almost guarantee what the changes WON'T be: - allow some match replays when a club loses points due to VAR/ref mistakes - throw out VAR and lump MORE responsibility back on human referees without the replay safety net - dramatically change laws/protocols 7 matches into a season, which would negatively impact the credibility of the results for 68 other matches that have already been played and didn't have clear mistakes I asked this earlier in here, and only a couple people answered... what would you do @bayred? If you're in charge, what happens to VAR rules and protocols right now, in the wake of this huge failure?
Already suggested it: Assessing and where necessary retraining / replacing untrained / incompetent VAR and field officiating staff. And obviously rooting out corruption where it is found to exist. Most of this stuff is human error-based.