The Jota offside was too bad, but is one of those things that needs a rule change. It's clear that's going to be happening in the offseason, one way or the other. WBA goal is an unfortunate limitation of the technology in that specific situation... think that's the first time that's happened, suppose they'll need to address that too. Ref making the wrong call, as always, is the bigger issue here. If there were no VAR, we get the same result and people would still whine about it. Fortunately neither call impacted the match result, but either way automated offsides can't get here quickly enough.
Nope! You cannot say that with certainty. You have no idea how those games would have played out in the alternate universe where the goals were allowed. Would the goals have spurred Villa and Southampton on and started a fight back? Or to get even more granular, the players would return to the halfway line for the kickoff, would that in some way have caused an injury because of players being in a different place and situation. When the game gets to injury time and you’re 3-0 up and denied a clear penalty, then fair enough, it’s not going to change the outcome. But at, what, 5-10 minutes into the 2nd half?, there’s no way, with any degree of certainty, to say how a disallowed goal is going to affect the final outcome.
There's no way that the those calls obviously impacted or changed the end result of those respective matches, is what I'm saying. And I'm not saying it with absolute certainty, but taking away a goal from clubs that won those matches isn't as bad as what could have happened in these circumstances -- we know that, since just last season the GLT failure literally impacted which clubs were relegated.
Again, nope. Nuh-uh, no way. Liverpool win 3-1. Are denied an equalizing goal when they’re 1-0 down. Therefore the denied goal had no effect. That’s not how logic works. Post hoc, propter hoc and all that. You do not know how the game would have ended had Jota’s goal been allowed, unless you’ve some sort of quantum powers that allow you to see all possible eventualities in all possible universes. In which case you’d be a superior being which, ummm…
I didn't claim to know what would happen if those goals were allowed. The statement "there's no way those calls obviously impacted/changed the scoreline or outcome of those matches" is a factual statement about reality. If you are contesting that statement at all, then we simply have to agree to disagree about reality.
"Didn't affect the outcome of the game, therefore all is fine"? LMFAO. scraping the barrel for excuses much? Don't talk nonsense. This season, more than many, could be one where the final league table could be decided by Goal Difference. so you're completely ignoring the fact that these ridiculous "oh well, never mind, no harm done" decisions could cost people their jobs, and cost clubs millions of pounds in revenue. but you want to just shrug off incompetence. what's coming next - "yeah, he should have been sent off but he didn't score, and he got subbed later anyway, so no harm done really"?
You are incredibly bad at looking at something in context. It's amazing. Where did I say "all is fine"? I said they were unfortunate calls, and they should change the laws. It probably will change because of decisions like these... "oh well, no harm done?", that's how I feel? That represents something I said? I said it was fortunate that the better teams on the day won those matches and the decisions didn't have more impact, and that tech which gets rid of these decisions cannot come quickly enough... and that means "oh well" to you? If this were a basic reading comprehension test I'm not sure you'd be getting a passing grade.
VAR also took away a United goal where McTominay swatted Son in the face to get clear. Resulting goal chalked off. That too doesn't seem to have impacted the end result, as United won in the end. It's still subjective, but seems a pretty good call generally speaking to me. Never getting this without VAR, obviously.
hmmm .... there's no way, unless it disturbs you, for some bizarre reason, to have to say otherwise....
As far as the Man Utd goal goes. This is another instance of the complete bollix which is often at play here. The problem is that once a ref is asked to review he becomes a pedantic head-master figure, as opposed to his being still just a referee with the wherewithal to show a degree of leniency on minor infractions for "play on advantages, flow of game, etc". Of course, I can't state this with certain knowledge, but I think most of us would agree that if the ref was standing near McTominay and Son for that interaction (pre-VAR), and had actually fully seen the actual real impact/force of it as clearly as anyone can see it on a video replay, then he would in all likelihood not have stopped the game or called any foul (he could have, sure, and might have, but it's unlikely). This would have been his refereeing common sense acting upon his intuition (at that point un-impinged upon by a tertiary force). Once the tertiary force (VAR and the audience waiting on Var) is made active, then suddenly the ref becomes a pedantic schoolmaster addressing rules to 5 year olds. The basic fact remains that a blindly flailing hand that lightly touches a face is not a foul if it barely touches the damn player. It is neither recklessly unheedingly dangerous, nor is it the intentional striking of an opponent. Any sane referee looking to chalk off a goal or not should be capable of ignoring the state of being in the VAR moment and just adjudicate the actual cause and effect as usual.
My two cents: There's no need for the word "obviously" in the initial sentence. All it does is give a meaningless crutch to the person making the statement to then continue to argue about. Imagine just saying "there's no way those calls impacted/changed the scoreline or outcome of those matches" This is, as Samarkand said, quite obviously incorrect logic. But add in "obviously" and the rubbish argument can then be later argued ....... Personally, I've long since given up arguing this kind of garbage about the inconsistencies and dislikeablility of VAR.
They really have to change the rule on penalties to allow for the ref to make the call if the keeper came off his line (for my writing of the rule, it would be to no more than a regular single footstep off his line with the leading foot, the other foot can be off the line too but must be trailing, and ALL to be subjectively decided on by the referee. This should never have been given over to VAR. It's pathetic wathcing that. The change would actually constitute fair sport IMO, as opposed to head-mastering with exact rules where it isn't necessary. It's nearly impossible to stop a penalty without moving slightly off that line, unless it's a really cr@p penalty.
It's actually crucial to what I'm trying to say... so that's the exact opposite of "meaningless". And it's not a crutch at all, rather it's used in an attempt to clarify my intended meaning. But thank you for demonstrating for the 20th time your complete discomfort with the reality that gradation & grey areas are sometimes unavoidable in rules, in opinions, in life, etc. You've brought up "obvious" fouls that everyone should agree on despite the fact that by their very nature they are completely subjective, and now you're taking the exact opposite stance for this foul on McTominay. Refs give this foul all the time, the only possible way this is controversial is because a goal was scored later, if he saw it and whistled it a foul then and there McTominay himself would be the only one complaining about it apart from some United supporters. It's been called a hundred times before and will be called 100 more times... if the ref sees it.
Spurs - Southampton: VAR gives a pen for a foul on the line of the penalty box. Reckless challenge, definitely "on the line" which counts as a penalty. Correct decision. Didn't take long, as they were setting up a free kick anyways. Son buries the pen and Spurs snatch all 3 points. Big for their top 4 hopes. Moments away from a really good weekend for LFC... if not for that very late Leeds corner & Spurs late pen, could be in 5th on GD, 1 point out of 3rd, with Spurs basically out of the running as far as LFC is concerned. Still should get top 4, but could have been a little closer. Very fine margins.
With the fans leading the charge to keep the ESL out of the game. It could be a good time for the fans lead the charge to rid the game of this blight. This stain called VAR. This ill conceived idea brought in for people who play virtual manager, but made it virtual Ref. Someone playing virtual god ruling over football. ****************** "I'd rather play without it." "Ruining the game." "I don't know the rules any more." The video assistant referee (VAR) was brought in to improve football. But Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson, Aston Villa midfielder Jack Grealish and Manchester City's Kevin de Bruyne have all spoken out about controversial decisions made by VAR recently. And it seems football fans are also less than convinced by VAR in its second full season in use in English football. In a poll for BBC Sport, only a third of football fans across the UK said they believe VAR has made football better. And more here:- VAR: Hit or miss? Fans' poll on football's most controversial debate https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55160134
This was your response to a Zaq post. It’s a good one. BUT that answer That reason was given and used to promote VAR. So in reality nothing has changed except to cause more problems, more delays, more controversy and more unsatisfying results. Relying on one man watching TV to give his opinion one a Refs on field call while players and fans on both sides all wait to see if a award is given their way. Especially for an offside call. No Grey areas there! you and others have already mentioned that a clearer rule that would make those calls clearer and easier would make everyone happier but until then “most” people are unhappy with VAR!
And if that's true that was a mistake. The rollout of VAR has been a huge failure, I've never disagreed with that sentiment, and the way the prem has handled this has been embarrassing... Super League-level embarrassing. Especially as someone that supports VAR. But to me the technology, and getting obvious calls removed from the game, is worth the trials and tribulations of ironing out these issues. Rules tweaks will improve things further. And more importantly, the automated offside system, whether 2 years away or more, will also be a huge step forward in restoring some confidence in the system I think. But it will take time. I think all indicators are it's not going anywhere. Unlike Super League. That much seems pretty clear, but personally I care more that egregious missed calls are eliminated than whether or not the controversial calls make the majority of people "happy".
Based on the Fans' reactions to the ESL, can you imagine what the Fans' reactions to VAR would be, if they had Fans at games this year?
Chelsea are up 2-0 on 2 illegal goals, if there's no VAR. Instead, Chelsea-Leicester remains 0-0. Chelsea fans moaning that "it isn't football anymore" after 2 good calls to keep things level. Reminds me of a lot of other VAR whiners, wishing bad calls counted when convenient. To quote a former commander-in-chief... sad!