Why all the hype?

If you're talking about international superstardom, then no American player should be talked about. As a matter of fact, let's just shut down the entire USA Men's board.

Sachin

 

I still can't figure out why anyone would want to associate themself with Brian Bosworth in any way...

 

All the players on the bad list aren't playing. So basically what he's saying why go to europe if you are not going to play. Players shouldn't go to Europe just for the sake of going to Europe, they should go to play. Sitting on the bench or just playing in the reserves for while is a waste of time.

 

No 19-year old is going to turn down any 2nd tier European league opportunity because of the past failures of his countrymen. Would you turn down a job at a better company because other people from your hometown have had bad success rates? You go where you are called to, and if you fail, you fail. But put yourself in that position. Don't tell me you would ever want to put aside a Man U reserve opportunity because of Jovan Kirovski's tainted legacy.

 

I don't think he's out to harm soccer in the USA. I think he's saying that the good young american prospects should stay in MLS and only go to Europe if they are going to see a significant amount of playing time. The list he posted just shows that most young American players are making mistakes going to Europe and not playing. Not everything is Black and White.

 

I'd argue that. Agreed you can't base your decisions on other peoples performance. You can't be afraid to fail, but all that tytomkiel is pointing out is that young talent might benefit more by staying and playing stateside. You cannot blame him for being a realist.

 

But being a realist is understanding that these kids aren't going to turn away offers from Europe to opt for MLS most of the time. I do agree that there is more of a danger that their careers will fall into obscurity if they go to Europe, sit on the bench, and lose consideration for the national team, but that is a risk nobody under 21 really ever considers.

We still have a few years before MLS has more staying initiative than, 'its closer to mommy'.

 

anyone else notice reyna not on these lists?

he started in europe, hes captain america right?

just throwin it out there


forza inter

 

What is your point?

How do you measure/determine level of play? I am sincerely interested in how this measure of success is quantified.

Is a player who exhibits a high level of play at the amateur level of registration a success?

Is anyone else amused by the number of posts defending or opposing this kids posts that start off by guessing what he means?

 

uh yes it was. you answered his call out for players that started in europe after the creation of mls that turned out to be good or successful. you gave four of which i think and many would agree with me that berhalter is no good and in fact should never ever be called back into the national team... just saying that by throwing berhalter out there as one of the "success" stories it really ********s up your argument...

 

I believe his career started before MLS, which was part of the original question.

I'm not going to get into a defense of Berhalter's skills, or lack therof. But if you can't agree that representing your country in the World Cup finals is one part of a sucessful career, then we have no basis for discussion.

Sachin

 

I agree with this. I'm so sick of hearing people talk about how Demerit, Philipakos, and especially Cooper should be called up.

 

Why all the hype? Simple. As American soccer fans we are waiting for our Pele, our Maradona, our George Best. We don't seen to have that guy in all of the obvious places, so we hope that somewhere in some obscure locale (ie. Europe) that our soccer savior is coming through the ranks of some great club to return triumphant to these shores and lead the USA to its rightful place as the top sporting nation in the universe.

This thread started with a commendable rant. Why is all our faith placed in a bunch of kids most of us have never seen. We then took a wrong turn somewhere. MLS is the best place to be seen, developed, etc? Hold on there! Every kid is different. Some kids reach their physical, tactical, psychological peak at 17, some at 20 and others at 23. There is no one size fits all to player identification, selection and development.

Who are the kids who benefited from going abroad? We have our list. Who was better off staying home? We can see who those guys were. Did some guys change their minds. Yes. Should some of the others have? Maybe.

Somewhere in all of this Jovan Kirovski's name has kept popping up, and since the thread starter is from San Diego, I will cut him some slack. First of all when Jovan left San Pasqual HS after his sophomore year in 1992, there was no MLS, which makes him a poor example for any arguement in this thread. But let's look at some other factors. Jovan was different than your typical US suburban kid. His parents were Macedonian immigrants with very close ties to their European roots. For them, playing for a top European club was not only an honor, but an economic opportunity for the entire family. Nobody had an college education (I played with Jovan's dad, uncle and cousin for years), and this was Jovan's chance to make a name, and a future for himself. I can't tell you what every other kid's motivation has been, but I know what Jovan's was. To that end, Jovan has done quite well. He has sice married his HS sweetheart and started a family. He has moved back to Southern California to be near his family, especially his mother, since his father died several years ago. Does he veiw his career as the failure the rest of you think it was? Not hardly!

How is this different that a young foreign basketball player wanting to go play in the NBA to make a name (and real fortune) for himself. With thousnads of fans hoping he will be their Michael Jordan and lead their country to the top of that sport's pinnacle. Do other countries have lucrative club basketball opportunities for their developing athletes. Sure they do in places like Italy, Spain, Isreal, Greece, etc. But they see the NBA as the Promised Land, just like we consider European soccer in the same way. Europe is where all the stars are, where all the money is. We're still waiting for our big superstar to make it big there, and when we do, we'll know that US soccer has finally arrived.

Is that to say that US soccer has not arrived. In the minds of many, including the suits in Chicago, winning the World Cup is the only real barometer for that. Take a look at the last couple of teams that have won the World Cup. What have they all had? At least one player who can lay claim to being one of, if not THE best player in the world at that time. The US doesn't have a guy that is in the top 50, and the Top 50 all play in Europe, whether they are African or South American, or Asian. So to give you my answer, that's why all the hype. Is it justified? Only time will tell.

 

I won't defend the other two you listed, but Demerit has had, by the accounts that I have read, a very good first season at Watford. Now if his position was left back or right mid, call the guy up. But his problem is that his position is center back. So Pope, Gibbs, Gooch, Boca are all clearly ahead of him. Then you have Berhalter and Conrad who are both probably ahead of him as well.

So when does one deserve a call up?

Conrad and Berhalter have all been called up. Is Demeritt better? I don't know. Berhalter has experience but is no longer playing in a top league. Conrad has been very very solid for KC, but does that make him better than Demeritt? I don't know. I would expect that Arena has scouted Demeritt and Conrad and Berhalter and believes that of those three, Conrad is most likely to help the team for 2006 hence the gold cup call up. But with regards to deserve a call up, Demeritt is close. Another solid season at Watford and he probably should be called up. Granted it might be post world cup and he has a huge huge hill to climb with Gibbs and Gooch really showing well to earn any quality playing time. But if Boca rides the pine all year for Fulham, Pope and Berhalter's age starts to catch up with them and Conrad doesn't show well at the Gold Cup (seems to be doing ok right now), Demeritt merits a call up.

 

I think beyond the question about whether it is beneficial for a young american player to choose overseas v. MLS, there is the valid point that the euro guys develop an almost urban legend status. Why? Because most haven't seen them and some have a really big club name next to theirs, even if they aren't seeing 1st team action. We don't get used to their faults, we don't know what they can't do...whereas we definately know what the MLS guys can and can't do.

Personally, I think we are in a healthy middle ground where the national team can skim off the guys who get 1st team action in Europe and not worry too much about the benchwarmers and guys in obscure leagues. We don't want to get like Mexico with virtually nobody overseas, but we want MLS to be strong as well.

 

Here are the two major problems with your list...
First, Twellman and Casey are not "bad" and don't belong there. That's minor.
More important is that so many of the guys on your list are too young or waaay too young to tell whether they will be good or bad.
Third, do the same exact thing with the guys who are drafted by MLS. Lots or them aren't even playing soccer anymore. A small group of players anywhere, US or Europe will be good and most will be bad. That's how it works!

 

Are you really unable to spell long names or foreign names? If that's the case, you really should have looked up the correct spelling of the names rather than show everyone exactly how ignorant you are.

Wow. You know...in the most recent edition of the UEFA Champions League...Olympiakos defeated Liverpool, AS Monaco, and Deportivo La Coruna. How do you reckon a "third rate Euro team" managed that?

Here's AS Monaco manager Didier D-e-s-c-h-a-m-p-s (did you get that?) on Olympiakos during the competition:

"[Olympiakos] are the best team I have seen in the group...I believe that Olympiakos deserve to be at the top of the group. They have won that right on the pitch. They are experienced, they have talented players in attack, and their supporters are very lively which helps the team."

And Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez on Olympiakos:

"[Olympiakos] were aggressive and chased every ball and we could hardly find any space to play...I believe that if Olympiakos can beat Liverpool here in Athens then they are capable of beating any team that visits."

And Deportivo La Coruna manager Javier Irureta:

"Credit where credit is due, Olympiakos are a good team that stay compact in the spaces between defence, midfield and the forwards...Olympiakos have done well in this tournament and deserve to be on top."

How many times have you failed the GED exam? That damn writing section gets ya every time doesn't it? (btw, comparing Philipakos to Kartes...if that is were you were trying to do...it doesn't deserve a response)

 

But JOB and Berhalter (and Reyna) are disqualified from his comment because they all made the move before 1996. Cherundolo, Gooch and Gibbs are the best three. Donovan sort of fits and sort of doesn't.

 

I know you are being facetious, but what about Keller and Friedel? There's DeMarcus Beasley and Reyna that have made (and are making) their mark.

 

You're crazy. Absolutely nutss

Cherundolo is quality-- among the best we've got-- absolutely no question our best right back.

Remember his cross in to EJ @T&T in the cricket park? Never been a better cross into the box from the right on the USMNT.

And definitely an asset on defense.

 

I don't know what would be 80 and what would be 20... please enlighten.
Look at the list of guys drafted by MLS vs the guys that started in Europe. You'll find both places have a few guys that are good and lots that are bad.