Why all the hype?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tytomkiel, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca
    Why do most people on this web site hype up players they never even seen play? Peter Philiwhatever, Kenny Cooper, Jemal Johnson, Danny Kassssiabaiaiouayon, Frankie Simek, Whitbreak, and many more.....

    Peter Philiwhatever plays in a third rate euro team and was injured all last year. Here's two word for the greek league you guys might like GUS KARTES....Kenny Cooper, oh wow Man U reserves, on loan in an even worse atmosphere...the last two players to come through Man U reserves are John Thorrington and Kirovski, and the last two to play in Portgual Zach Thornton and Kirovski, enough said. As for all the young guys in England, sure its nice that they are in England but who gives a sh!t. Bruce hasnt called on them and we failed to make the olympics with Whitbread and Simek on the squad, as a matter of fact Zak was ripped the whole qualifying. Jemal Johnson? Who the hell is this guys...heres a name for you guys too James Bishop....so to sum it up Europe doesnt mean anything so you guys need to quit with your high hope, because MLS is the best way to get a look.
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    are you a troll or just ignorant? and thats not an attack, but an honest question
     
  3. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca

    Name one player who started there career in Europe, post MLS, to come and play and be successful for the US Nats? I'm not a troll or ignorant I just say the things people won't. I'm the Brian Bosworth of Bigsoccer...
     
  4. fidlerre

    fidlerre Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    This all comes from the same poster who cheered Casey's torn ACL.

    Ignorant ass-clown is a proper description -- yet probably way too kind.
     
  5. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Cherundolo started his career post-MLS.
    Onyewu's been relatively successful with the Nats thus far, if you discount his performance at the Azteca.
     
  6. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca

    I didnt cheer it, I just thanked him....how many goals has Casey had for USA? I also PMed you some kleenex.
     
  7. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    1. Jon O'Brien
    2. Even Kirovski has 50-odd caps.
    3. Steve Cherundolo has never played in MLS and would have been in the World Cup had he not gotten hurt.
    4. Gregg Berhalter hasn't played in MLS, IIRC.

    So there's 4.

    Sachin
     
  8. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca
    Yeah Onyewu and Cherundolo are correct, any others. Wait how about the guys who started in Europe and where are they now?
     
  9. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca
    Read before you write
     
  10. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    He's "Stone Cold"!!!!

    Sachin
     
  11. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Or maybe he was once trampled by Bo Jackson. Perhaps inadvertently in a supermarket.
     
  12. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    He's right, folks. "James Bishop" is, indeed, a name.
     
  13. RSwenson

    RSwenson Member

    Feb 1, 2000
    Assuming you are serious:

    Onyewu and Gibbs are both #1 or near #1 on the depth charts for their positions. Both started in Europe... Twellman did as well (yes, I know that he is not on the Nats right now, but that has been mostly attributable to untimely injuries and illnesses... and the way our forwards are looking these days, he might be on the squad soon)...

    BTW, Donovan also started there...

    Many of the older generation also started in Europe but, as I am sure you will quickly (and correctly) point out, MLS was not an option... of course, there were notorious flops in Europe both in the old days as well as more recently (the same can be said of highly-touted MLS acquisitions)... Most youth programs produce less than a player a year that makes the transition to the senior side...

    Players starting in Europe is going to be more common as teams recognize that there is quality in the US... To their credit, MLS (and USSF) has been willing to give young players a chance...

    Rand
     
  14. thehands1616

    thehands1616 New Member

    Feb 15, 2004
    little island
    obrien is good. kirovski is trash and cherundolo is ok, not great just average. finally why the hell would you put berhalter on the list to prove your point the guy is trash... you should have put gooch instead because in my opinion he has been very solid in every game he has played...
     
  15. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    That wasn't the question I answered.

    I didn't think of Gooch, so he didn't make the list.

    Sachin
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but only 2 of those qualify as "successful."

    He's got a good point. Apparently he made another post that means y'all have the long knives out for him, but he's pretty much on target here.

    EDIT: Gooch, I believe, will be a legitimate addition to the list, but he's not yet. I really like Gibbs, IMO he's our first choice centerback. But unless Bruce makes him a regular in WCQs and the World Cup, you can't add him to the list, not yet anyway.
     
  17. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    What's the criteria for successful?

    If appearing in a World Cup final (JOB, Berhalter) or representing your country 50+ times (Kirovski) aren't considered successful, I'd like to know what is. If Gooch can be considered successful, so should Cherundolo (longer career, more caps, etc.)

    I don't have the long knives out for him, but the Bosworth comment just deserved a riposte!
     
  18. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    Your general sentiment is accurate. Bigsoccer is generally way too obsessed with young players in Europe. The reason why is of course the succesful stories of a Cherundolo, a Gibbs, etc. You get a young guy like a Gibbs who jri and some others were calling for his inclusion back in 2002, and the thought is if young guys like Gibbs were brought in earlier, they might have pushed out a Berhalter or some player those posters do not like. The argument is simple. Let's say that a young player in your list gets a decent year of solid premiership minutes in the next year. They immediately garner consideration for the USMNT in most cases. So one good season and these guys are close to being in. Of course that is a big if....

    With regards to those that you specifically mentioned, Philipakos is mentioned repeatedly because the USMNT doesn't have a right midfielder that anyone really feels 110% strongly about. Ralston/Klein/DMB on the right and Lewis on the left/ all of the other options we have tried have had limited success. Ralston is a solid professional, but everyone knows his limitations. So people drool over the possiblity which is a complete unknown (philipakos) since they do not know his limitations until they see him play.

    There should be no talk of Philipakos, Cooper, Johnson, Karbs, Simek, Whitbread until they earn reasonable amounts of playing time whether that be on loan, at their club or transfered out of the big clubs. Spector, Demerrit, Rogers, and others should be on the radar already. Spector hasn't earned starters minutes but he has shown well when given a chance and he can play a spot (left back) that the USMNT is very very very thin. Demerrit is just up against one hell of a deep position (pope, gibbs, gooch, boca, conrad) and unless there are a ton of injuries is more of an option for 2010. Rogers should be considered since right back is relatively thin.

    Maybe those young guys have good years this year, get called in by Bruce for some friendlies in 2006 in early january/february and make Arena think about his selections. Odds are against them heavily. But in the end, with Bigsoccer it is the player that you don't know who has the advantage over the player whose limitations you do know.
     
  19. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca
    So we have Berhalter, Gooch, OB, and Cherundolo..sure Donovan started over seas but how long was he there, Kirovski is horrible....so heres what i did

    GOOD:
    Berhalter
    Gooch
    OB
    Cherundolo
    GIbbs

    BAD:
    Akwari, Nelson
    Arnold, Melchoir
    Casey, Conor
    Caugherty, Ryan
    Cooper, Kenny
    Crowell, Troya
    DeMerit, Jay
    Denny, Jay
    Enochs, Joe
    Gibson, Grover
    Grenier, Josh
    Gruber, Jordan
    Harwat, Kirk
    Johnson, Jemal
    Joy, Ian
    Karbassiyoon, Danny
    Kirovski, Jovan
    Mason, Michael
    Morales, Yuri
    Norkus, Caleb
    Pearce, Heath
    Philipakos, Peter
    Rush, Sean
    Russell, Robbie
    Salyer, Philip
    Thomas, Jacob
    Twellman, Taylor
    van Buskirk, John
    Wagner, David
    Walker, Jonny
    Waltrip, Brian
    Westberg, Quentin
    Whitbread, Zak
    White, Jeremiah
    Yelldell, David
    Yi, Alex
     
  20. tytomkiel

    tytomkiel Red Card

    Feb 12, 2002
    San Diego, Ca
    Success can be measuered by level of play, not by career or caps.....JOB and Berhalter are solid, although Berhalter is a little inconsistant he still plays well when we need it....Kirovski sucks he's had only one good game with USA and that was against Germany like 6 years ago, Gooch is young but solid as is Gibbs and Cherundolo is above other US Men at right back too
    Thank you
    Mr. Brian Bosworth
     
  21. drew_VT_6

    drew_VT_6 Member

    Feb 22, 2000
    Orange County, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it safe to assume you have seen all of the players on your list play numerous times which makes you capable of passing judgement on them?
     
  22. fidlerre

    fidlerre Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Central Ohio
    Please do explain how a young player like Spector, Westberg, Pearce, Philipakos, Karbassiyoon, Johnson, DeMerit, Denny, etc immediately fall under the bad category in your little world? I guess you expect them to be international superstars? I'd love to hear your answers at how they are "bad" and have "failed" in Europe...
     
  23. Red Star

    Red Star Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Fayetteville, AR
    That is an awful lot of bad players. I fear that you may have fallen into your own trap, judging players you have not seen. Have actually seen those guys play enough to judge their qualities?

    Casey bad? I must have a different definition in mind. A number of those guys are too young to pass judgment on. Kirovski horrible? He may not be a National Team caliber player but "horrible" is hardly a fair assessment.

    There is probably a reasonable argument somewhere in your posts but you have hidden it with posturing and hyperbole.
     
  24. Red Star

    Red Star Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Fayetteville, AR
    How is level play measured?
     
  25. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    How do you measure level of play? Is it capacity? Is it a unit of length? Is it a derivative unit like density or acceleration?

    I'll agree that Kirovski has never lived up to expectations anywhere he's gone, but to call him unsucessful is flat our wrong.

    As for everyone else on your list, how many have you seen? How many players are just folks playing in Europe whose successes we celebrate and failures we tolerate because they're living our (but not Landon Donovan's) dream? And I'm surprised Convey isn't anywhere on your list.

    Sachin
     

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