Who's next?

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Sport Billy, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    F. Till 2026, after the North American World Cup.
     
  2. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
  3. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it’ll be the last, but there might be a break. Which, is understandable.

    I see them letting the USL Championship gain a little more traction first.
     
  4. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I want to see next is the strengthening and stabilization of USL...


    USL Championship
    West:
    1. El Paso Locomotive
    2. Las Vegas Lights
    3. New Mexico United
    4. Phoenix Rising
    5. San Diego Loyal SC
    6. Riverside/Inland Empire [Expansion]
    East:
    1. Oklahoma City Energy FC
    2. Tulsa Roughnecks
    3. San Antonio FC
    4. Memphis 901 FC
    5. Milwaukee [Expansion]
    6. Cleveland [Expansion]
    North:
    1. Hartford Athletic
    2. Pittsburgh Riverhounds SC
    3. Indy Eleven
    4. Louisville City FC
    5. Baltimore [Expansion]
    6. Detroit [Expansion]
    South:
    1. Birmingham Legion
    2. Charleston Battery
    3. Raleigh FC (North Carolina FC)
    4. Tampa Bay Rowdies
    5. Fort Lauderdale Strikers (Miami FC)
    6. New Orleans [Expansion]
    USL Championship Expansion Teams:
    New Orleans
    Riverside/Inland Empire
    Cleveland
    Milwaukee
    Baltimore
    Detroit
    Note: These are the markets that would most improve USL Championship.


    USL League One:
    West:
    1. Colorado Springs Switchbacks
    2. LA Galaxy 2
    3. Orange County SC
    4. Portland Timbers 2
    5. Tacoma Defiance
    6. Real Monarchs FC
    7. Sacramento Republic FC 2
    8. Reno 1861 FC
    9. FC Tucson
    10. Oakland USL
    11. Fresno [Expansion]
    12. Boise [Expansion]
    East:
    1. Saint Louis FC
    2. Austin Bold FC
    3. Rio Grande Valley Toros FC
    4. Chicago USL
    5. Forward Madison FC
    6. North Texas SC
    7. Toronto FC 2
    8. Union Omaha
    9. Dayton [Expansion]
    10. Des Moines [Expansion]
    11. Corpus Christi [Expansion]
    12. Little Rock [Expansion]
    North:
    1. Loudon United FC
    2. New York Red Bulls 2
    3. Philadelphia Union 2
    4. Queensboro FC
    5. USL Rhode Island
    6. USL Buffalo
    7. NE Revolution 2
    8. Richmond Kickers
    9. Rochester Rhinos
    10. Harrisburg FC [Expansion]
    11. Syracuse [Expansion]
    12. Worcester [Expansion]
    South:
    1. Charlotte Independence
    2. Atlanta United 2
    3. Inter Miami FC 2
    4. Greenville Triumph
    5. Chattanooga Red Wolves
    6. South Georgia Tormenta
    7. Orlando City 2
    8. Jacksonville [Expansion]
    9. Greensboro [Expansion]
    10. Asheville [Expansion]
    11. Cape Coral [Expansion]
    12. Bradenton [Expansion]
     
  5. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, at this time USL Championship is looking to expansion to:
    Jacksonville Armada (2021)
    Buffalo (2023)
    Grand Rapids (2022)
    Des Moines (2022)
    Oakland (East Bay) (2021)
    Cleveland (2022)
    Queensboro FC (2021)

    They recently stated they wanted to cap the league at 36, with a push for USL League One expansion
     
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  6. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have Des Moines on the wrong list, according to the owners and the USL. Considering how much the MSA has grown, Des Moines's ranking as the best minor league city in the nation, the long-term attendance success of the Menace, and the presence of an ever-growing portfolio of regional headquarters for multinational corporations, Des Moines has demonstrated that it has what the USLC is seeking. Hell, the city l
    already has AAA baseball (for over 40 years), the AHL, and NBAGL. Why wouldn't the highest level of minor league soccer want to be in Des Moines?
     
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  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn’t get too hung up on the particulars... I’m definitely open to change in this model. Which, in my opinion, should be set up for promotion/relegation between USL-C and USL-1.
     
  8. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol the guy that said there was no way they were going past 28 thinks that they are really stopping at 30.
     
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  9. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we’ll stop through 2022 for now. I believe though around that time frame we’ll add 31 & 32. Depending on the hype around the WC, I could see us expand up to 40. But, I do believe that we’ll only expand at this point if the owners make it too good of a deal to pass up.
     
  10. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    FWIW, there's a Carolina Crown drum corps. They won the DCI championship in 2013. Don't know if that carries any legal weight of not.
     
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  11. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    IIRC he was convinced the league would stop at 24, too, back in the day.
     
  12. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Expansion may slow down a bit now that the price for entry has skyrocketed over the past 12 months. Going forward prospective ownership groups are going to need to outlay a serious chunk of cash upfront to not only gain entry into MLS, but to get their new team off of the ground. For a new team you'd be looking at $1B+ initial outlay for the expansion fee, stadium, training facility, academy, etc. That's just to build those necessary pieces of infrastructure, you'll also need a decent outlay of cash every year to keep the lights on and operate those pieces as well.

    MLS may not add any teams for a while, not because they don't want to, but because the number of prospective soccer loving crazed billionaires will be in shorter supply.
     
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  13. antnee7898

    antnee7898 Member

    Oct 19, 2007
    South Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what about Las Vegas, who are currently trying to iron out a Stadium plan with their government, and just got an extension to do so? sounds like everyone there are serious about MLS. Yes the price will be steep to get in, but I don't see any signs of slowing down in Las Vegas. The price is high, but the spots are fewer to get in. If you're not willing to pay the price now, you may never get in.
     
  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about Vegas? I didn't say that MLS would STOP expanding. I said that the rate of expansion would slow way down now that the initial costs to not only get into the league, but also to get your new team up and running have significantly increased from just 12 months ago.
     
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  15. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I totally agree. Latest reports put future MLS expansion fees at $600M. This would be on par with what was charged by the NHL for its latest expansion club in Seattle at $650M.
     
  16. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just can't see it. Their are not enough Billionaires or viable markets to support 40 clubs. I believe that 32 clubs will be the max, as indicated by the other major sports leagues in North American.
     
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  17. hipityhop

    hipityhop Member

    New Mexico United
    United States
    Jan 10, 1999
    Mission TX
    Club:
    SønderjyskE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    UH Huh... Forbes sez we have a market for 50 clubs... When u got Billionaires ponying up 500 million for a club, that will expand soccer footprint across the country... I can't see MLS turning it down. Peter Vermes last year expected up to 40 teams before it's done. There is no magic number.
     
  18. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #918 SteveUSSF_ref8, Dec 18, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It might be believable if Garber hadn't said pretty much the same thing pretty much every time MLS reached an even number.
     
  20. SteveUSSF_ref8

    SteveUSSF_ref8 Member+

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, the NHL went thru a period of rapid expansion during the 1990s. There was talk of the NHL expanding to 40 clubs at the time. Then they capped at 30 in 2000. Then it wasn't till 2017 that they added the 31st team and have just added the 32nd team coming on board in 2021.
     
  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Completely different influences tho.. The NHL froze at 30 because it ran into financial difficulties at that time and had to focus on fixing those issues over expanding. Once the financial situation was worked out, they were able to start expanding again. MLS currently isn't having financial issues like the NHL was at the time, so has no reason to stop its expansion...
     
  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My bet is that there won’t be any expansion news until after the 2022 WC other than a little of this here and little of that there.

    But, all bets are off come that point. If the economy is still surging, billionaires still want to get into the game, and there’s a lot of hype surrounding the 2026 WC here in America; I would bet anything that there are going to be AT LEAST two more teams. Most realistically, I see us getting to 36 teams, with West/East split into 18 teams, and 34 games home/away in total.

    My front runners for those spots:
    Las Vegas Lights
    Phoenix Rising
    Indy Eleven
    Detroit
    Comments: Unless something catastrophic happens; I’m betting these are locks by 2026 to be announced.

    Strong Contenders:
    New Mexico United
    San Diego Loyal
    OKC Energy
    San Antonio FC
    Louisville City
    Comments: These will be the front runners to contend for those 35 & 36.

    Still in the Running:
    Raleigh
    Birmingham
    Tampa Bay
    Riverside
    Fresno
    Virginia Beach
    Pittsburgh
    Milwaukee
    Cleveland
    Buffalo
    Memphis
    New Orleans
    Jacksonville
    Rochester
    Omaha
    El Paso
    Comments: None of these guys have that strong of bids, but if a billionaire steps up and says hey, I want a team here, then I wouldn’t be shocked to see them in the league.

    Prediction: No new teams named until after 2022. Between 2022-2026, MLS reaches 36. After that, I see the league beginning to consider promotion/relegation before allowing new teams to expand. Although they may let it get up to 40 before entertaining that idea fully. Nonetheless, I predict it will become a more serious argument in the 2030s or 2040s.
     
  23. DCW531

    DCW531 Member

    City SC
    Jan 31, 2017
    St. Louis, MO
    There is probably enough viable markets, (if you consider 1.5 Million population viable). Going by MSA numbers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas#United_States

    #38 market Providence RI @ 1.6 Mil population (two teams each LA /NY)
    #40 market gets you down to Jacksonville @ 1.5m population.

    The last city at or above 2.0 million population if you want that as a new minimum, would be Indianapolis @ #34.
    And smallest current city, Salt Lake City is #47 on the list at 1.2 million.

    Now another 10 Billionaires?
     
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  24. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    If either a member of the Forbes editorial staff or Peter Vermes were capable of ponying-up the expansion fee necessary to secure a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, I'd be more likely to put m

    Who is to say how many billionaires are out there that are ready, willing, and capable of "ponying up 500 million for a club"?

    Also, part of the value of a modern, major-pro sports franchise is contained within the relative scarcity of teams to be had in each league. As such, expanding league membership to 40 or 50 franchises runs the risk of undermining said value.

    Further, whether fair or not, the leadership of major-pro sports leagues values the leverage of having empty markets to which they can threaten to relocate franchises for any number of reasons - low attendance, an antiquated stadium, insufficient revenue streams from a stadium, etc. It's safe to say that once a league expanded to 40 or 50 members, said circuit's leadership would be extremely hard-pressed to convince civic leaders in the markets they were already operating in that municipalities outside of the 40 to 50 were legitimate targets for relocation and/or expansion.

    From where I'm sitting, the notion of any of North America's major-pro sports leagues - including MLS - expanding to 40 or 50 members is a pipe-dream.
     
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  25. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of the people, all of the time.

    At least he is consistent. And putting some thought into USL.

    The only reason they are pausing is no other bid is ready at the moment.

    A brief look at expansion, contraction, & relocation.

    1. 1998: Chicago & Miami
    2. 2002: Tampa & Miami fold.
    ---------------
    3. 2005: Chivas & RSL
    4. 2006: Houston (from SJ)
    5. 2007: TFC
    6. 2008: San Jose
    7. 2009: Seattle
    8. 2010: Philly
    9. 2011: Portland & Vancouver
    10. 2012: Montreal
    -----------------
    11. 2015: NYCFC & Orlando, Chivas folds.
    12. 2017: Atlanta & Minny
    13. 2018: LAFC
    14. 2019: Cincy (new Crew & Fire owners)
    15. 2020: Nashville & Miami
    16. 2021: Austin & Charlotte
    17. 2022: St. Louis & Sacramento

    There is no way MLS stops expanding until they hit NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB size, 32 teams.

    Now, if they are going to stop at 32 (which I doubt), then there are only 2 seats left, and there are 2 markets that are considerably bigger than all the others left: Detroit & Phoenix. Maybe they try to ensure 1 gets a seat. Or encourage it.

    Plus, if regional/local rivalries continue to flourish (El Traffico, Cascadia, NY derby, NY/DC, NY/Phil, Crew/Cincy), then proximity to an existing team could be a plus (Raleigh, Tampa, SA, Indy, Det, Balt, CLE, Bay Area, etc).

    MLS has not gone 3 years without adding a team since 1999-2004. Consecutive years would be 2013-2014.
     

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