Review: Who's better Villa or Ibrahimovic?

You're correct. Barcelona has players like Xavi and Iniesta that allow him to be the player he is. Xavi especially. The guy is the most important player for Barcelona and Spain for that matter. We saw Spain win the world cup with Xavi (in my opinion) being the most important player. Spain was basically Barcelona hahaha.

I do respect Messi and hold him in high regard, but people tend to forget the other players in Barcelona.

Yes, maybe. But i'd like to see Villa play for Milan. I'd like to see him be as effective as Ibra is for us... Ibra seems to thrive in a 4-3-1-2 system. Ibra was never a flop for Barcelona in my opinion. Fine point about Vieri.

 

What are you talking about? What defensive responsibilities did Dinho have at Barca? What defense responsibilities does CRonaldo have at Madrid?

Messi regularly tears La Liga teams apart on his own. To claim he couldn't be able to do that with any other team in the league is completely baseless.

Messi played 5 league matches without Xavi last season. In those matches he scored 7 goals and provided 3 assists. Iniesta even less since he was out for large parts with injury. Not to mention that Xavi only provided a very small amount of direct assists to Messi last season, Iniesta, again even less. He still scored 46 goals.

Aside from that Messi has been Barca's main assist man behind Xavi for 3 seasons in a row now. He averages roughly the same amount of assists Ronaldinho did in his prime at Barcelona when he was considered one of the best passers in the world. He currently leads the league in assists with 10. Xavi and Iniesta only have 3. It's a drop so far considering Xavi had 14 last season. Barcelona don't seem to be struggling though.

These ridiculous claims that Xavi and Iniesta are what makes Messi the player he is are completely baseless and have been proven time and time again to be false.

Yeah that's why 2 of them aren't un contention for the Balon d'Or... Ohh wait . Xavi and Iniesta have been regarded as some of the best if not the best in their positions for years now. Nobody forgets them.

Ibra was a flop for most of the second half of the season. Towards the end he was benched in favor of Bojan because even Bojan was outperforming him.

 

There are other matches, and the Spanish Liga is a cake walk. Some of those games are very easy. stop trying to compare apples and oranges. And stop posting such an angry response because I don't hold Messi to god like status. He didn't do much with Argentina without these players.

You need to look at the context.

No they aren't. And Argentina is a key piece of evidence for why. Obviously Xavi and Iniesta are not Argentine. And Messi... well... can't do everything he did with Barcelona... the reason why may extend to that Diego Maradona is an idiot or that Argentina simply doesn't have players like Xavi or Iniesta. It's not baseless.

Actually I notice on forums people. Xavi is an underrated player. Period.

Not exactly. He was still scoring plenty of goals. What happened is he did not fit in Barca's system. You know what? That's Barca's own fault.

They spend tons of money on players and don't even give them more than one season. Ibra isn't the first they did this too. Chygrynsky is another... my god man, they took a 10 million Euro loss on him selling him right back to the team they bought him from!

 

And honestly Messi has NO business being on the Balon D'Or final list. The player that should have been on there was Sneijder. I don't care what amateur 2nd rate team Messi scored five goals against in the Liga. Irrelevant. I'm not going to stick to politics and angry fanboyism.

And believe me, I'm no Inter fan.

 

What about the CL? The competition he finished top scorer in for the second year in a row? Regardless of your opinion of La Liga Messi's form was ridiculous.

And don't tell me how I should or shouldn't post. You have zero authority.

You really don't know what you're talking about. The entire team underperformed for most of the qualifiers under Maradona. The team switched coaches mid-way and pretty much everyone was playing bad. Anyone who bothered to follow the matches knows this.

Xavi and Iniesta aren't the reasons Messi has underperformed at times for Argentina. The fact that he was played out of position and the fact that he had an incompetent coach played a large role in this. Even then he was Argentina's best player in the cup and was directly involved in about 50% of the goals the team scored.

If this is your conclusive proof you aree wayyy off.

Xavi has been considered the best playmaker in the world for a couple of years now. I have no idea how that's being underrated. He just won World Soccer mag player of the year, he has led La Liga in assists for two years in a row. But of course it's La Liga it doesn't count .

Unless you're going to post plenty of specific examples of people underrating Xavi I call bullshit.

How is it Barca's fault? It could be argued that Ibra was Barca's best player in the first half of the season. How is it Barca's fault that he lost all confidence in himself and started sucking? Some of Barca's best matches last season including the second leg against Arsenal and the 2-6 trashing of Madrid came without Ibra. He wasn't missed. This season so far, he hasn't been missed.

Yeah and look how much the team has suffered . For your info I like Ibra a lot but the fact is that he underperformed for the second half of the season. It was the opposite of his first half.

If Villa sucks for the remainder of this season I'll say it as well.

This says it all really. Ignorance is bliss.

 

And same to you. You only post an angry rant about how much of a fan boy you are of Messi. Nothing you say is coherent or makes any sense. Yes what about the CL? Something Inter won. Sneijder should be on that list. Not Messi. The only reason Messi is there is politics.

But then again this merely proves my point. I don't know what I'm talking about? Did you see the points I posted or is that something that went pass your head?

Messi simply isn't what you make him out to be.

I've seen it on this forum. So I call bullshit on the BS you post.

Who scored two of those goals against Arsenal? Come on man, you don't know what you're saying. You're just ranting like a mad man.

Blah blah blah.

Ignorance is bliss? How is what I said ignorant? Why should Messi be on there? Your one of the worst I've encountered on here. Not everyone considers Messi to be a god. Get over it.

 

And please don't reply with another pathetic fan boy rant. I'm done here. I've proved my point.

 

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't post am I? Keep calling my posts angry so you don't actual bother to address my points.

I brought up the CL because you only mentioned that Messi can run through crappy La Liga defenses. Well for the past 2 years he's finished top scorer in the CL as well. I guess you'll find some excuse to claim those defenses suck as well.

And I do believe Sneijder should be on the list, but not Iniesta.

You don't have a point. How many Argentina games did you watch all through the qualifiers?

Yet the excuses you bring up have been debunked all over this forum plenty of times.

The burden is on you to provide proof. If he's sooooo underrated as you claim there should be plenty of examples all over the place.

Since apparently you can't read I specifically said THE SECOND LEG of the Arsenal tie. Ibrahimovic didn't play.

Great response. Expected from you.

Please, you make it seem as if every player can just easily score in La Liga and continue to insult the league. One would think if it was so easy Ibra could have actually done better.

Messi scored 46 goals last season along with plenty of assists. He lead La Liga in scoring, won European Golden Boot, lead the CL in scoring, and lead his team to the league title. People were claiming this was one of the best individual seasons since Ronaldo in 96'. That's why he should be on there.

Honestly if you actually bothered to watch Barca you'd understand what I'm saying but judging by the things you continue to claim you clearly didn't.

The only point you've proven is that you have no clue about half the things you've commented on. Bye bye.

 

I said that he would not be able to completely replicate his Barcelona form for another team, that should be pretty obvious when you factor in how much service and possession Barcelona have in contrast to other teams. Obviously his performances would still be world class, but you would definitely see his status drop, for obvious reasons that I already mentioned. You think he would put up the same numbers for a team like Sevilla or Juventus?

And thank you for bringing up Ronaldinho, which only proves my point even further. He was never able to replicate his stellar Barcelona form for Brazil or Milan. He is basically useless unless playing slow teams at the bottom of the Serie A and regularily fails against top level opposition.

 

So Messi's numbers are purely based on the fact that Barcelona plays very good possession? If that were the case then why aren't other Barca players putting up similar numbers? How come no player since 96' had managed to score as much as he did for Barca last season? Even all timers like Dinho and Rivaldo.

You mentioned defensive responsibilities. I highly doubt other coaches were suddenly going to start making Messi play defense.

But these are all assumptions.

I think he could certainly put up huge numbers for Sevilla. For Juve it's different since it's a different country and a different league. Again it's all speculation.

When Ronaldinho went to Milan he was already past it which is why Barca got rid of him in the first place. He was slow, overweight, and didn't give a crap anymore. You can't compare that Ronaldinho to the Dinho of 04-05-06 when he was at his peak.

 

Well obviously not, but the fact that he is on the best team in the world that caters to his talent certainly helps quite a bit. You are completely off base and misinterpreting what I am saying about Messi right now. His numbers are superior to Rivaldo and Dinho because he is a better player offensively than they were. You know I think he is the most individually talented player in the world right?

Other teams that are less fortunate to have such an exquisite midfield often give their players more of a defensive duty, depending on their position. He doesn’t have to at Barcelona for reasons already covered, making his job easier. Again, I’m not saying he is a worse player because of this.

I think you would see his stats drop.

He briefly regained his fitness and attitude for Milan and still was not nearly as good as he was. It’s not like he was that old last season either.

 

Take out Barcelona and Spanish teams have done jack in the Champions League recently. Real Madrid have been consistently knocked out and embarrassed by teams such as Lyon, Roma and Liverpool and were even given a whooping by the now pathetic excuse for Juventus a few seasons back in the group stages. Saying that Spanish teams are doing better and have been doing better than Italian teams in the champions league is blatantly false, as there have been just as many champions from Italy in the past 5 years than Spain.

 

David Villa for sure. Ive said this to many that Ibrahimovic is replacable on any team. Villa, no. Look at valencia, since hes left theyve been below average and Ibrahimovic leaves INter, they win the treble, he leaves Barca, they beat RM 5-0.

Anyways, neither was good enough to make the best XI of 2011 on this site. Its a real good site called ministry of soccer.


www.ministryofsoccer.org

 

I am not sure anymore what is your point?

 

Villareal beat Inter 2-2 thanks to aggregate score and Barcelona beat Milan 1-0 over two legs. That years goes to Spain, by a hair.

Valencia eliminate Inter again by a 2-2 aggregate score and Milan win the tournament.

Except you leave out the delightful fact that Roma eliminate and embarrass the mighty Real Madrid, actually giving the Italians a better head to head against Spain that year. Real won La Liga that season and were still beaten by Roma. Barcelona play two crappy teams and then lose to Manchester United.

Villareal advance after playing a poor Greek team and Roma get eliminated by a 1-1 aggregate score to Arsenal who end up thrashing Villareal 4-1 on aggregate. Roma played much better against the team that knocked out Villareal. Simply advancing against crappy teams does not tell the whole story.

Except you didn’t really do better 3 times, you left out literally every important variable and head to head record in an attempt to make La Liga look stronger than it actually is, luckily I actually watched the games and remembered who beat who. Nice try though, it would have worked on another FIFA 10 Barca fanboy

*yawns* all that matters in the end is who wins and does better on head to head results, we shall see.

A tournament that Italian teams don’t take seriously and still manage to have the most amount of wins in with 9.

No it is not, you lied and exaggerated in your attempt to prove a point, which I just countered without even blinking an eye. The years Spain did better weren’t by much at all and just as many Italian teams have won the trophy as Spanish ones in the last 5 years on top of head to head performances. So I actually, I was right if you actually take the time to examine the tournament.

And for the record, the fact that you have been reduced to a personal attack on me is just further proof that you’ve lost the argument. But take heart, you have the pleasure of watching the mighty La Liga, where you can see your team finish 3rd place and still be a simple stone throw of 28 points behind first place, talk about fair and balanced.

 

Yes it does actually. Italian teams doing better against Spanish teams, especially Real Madrid who are either finishing at first or second place in La Liga every year does say something. If your league is so special why are real constantly getting knocked up by teams like Lyon, Liverpool, Roma, Juventus, Bayner and Arsenal? Aren’t they supposed to be a representative of the top tier of football coming out of La Liga, yet they cannot even make it passed the first round of the knockout stages?
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You beat them at home and drew with them at home. Last year the pathetic geriatric excuse that was Milan managed to embarrass Real Madrid on their home field and they were later knocked out by Lyon. You probably missed those games while playing the latest installment of FIFA, clown.

At least I’m consistent and actually applying logic and reasoning to my arguments, while you are just trying way to hard to be La Liga’s fluffer. I mean your own profile says that you support Valencia and Deportivo La Coruna, two teams that are both in La Liga. A real football fan only supports one team, not two that are both in topflight. What’s even sadder is that if you add up their points from last season they are only 19 points above Barcelona who finished with 99. If you add together the points from the Serie A teams that finished in the same places, they beat the first place team by 38 points, at least Serie A is balanced.

Right, and there have been 2 Italian champions and 2 Spanish champions in the last 5 years, the Italian teams at least having two different teams win. Barcelona is La Liga.

The only clown here is the one who supports two teams in La Liga, probably your two favorite teams to play your friends with online or something. Have fun watching Barcelona and Madrid.

 

Very true, I tink Ibrahimovic is replacable on any team he plays on. Hes very good but not a franchise player. Cant wait to see him in the MLS.

Check out this Online Magazine called Ministry Of Soccer

www.ministryofsoccer.org

 

Are you really that intellectually lazy? What do you expect from someone who supports two teams in the same league.

 

You are a textbook example of a bandwagon supporter. The only one throwing insults around is you, at least I'm capable of arguing beyond posting rubbish like "hahaha" after a run-on sentence in broken english.