In another thread, the topic of the Super Draft came up, which has led to this question: Who should United pick in the Super Draft?
It really depends on who signs P-40 coming out of college or the U-17 team. Alex Yi from UCLA would be a solid pick to play left back, but is he necessary with Prideaux, Pope, Nelsen and Reyes if Hudson wants to play 3-5-2? Alecko Eskadarian from UVa is probably one of the best forwards in College, just scored yesterday with the U-23's. But with Moreno, Tino and Q2, he may not be necessary. Where DC needs to draft is central midfield, either attacking mid or D-mid or a right wing for cover if Bennie gets back to form and wants to bolt to Europe. Other people, like Sandon Mibut know more about the younger kids than I, so I will defer to them for other recommendations.
This Freddy Adu fellow... did I hear that he is pretty good and that there is some controversy about his age? ( ) Maybe he is indeed older than he says-- maybe he's 23 and all objections to bringing in another young guy would vanish....
It won't matter a bit who DC United drafts from the college ranks! 99% of players straight out of college need at least one season to get up to speed. Unless there is another "returnee" of the Twellman or Donovan type, I don't see anything coming from the draft next year. Perhaps next year's draft picks will provide in 2004 but not in 2003!
I don't care who we take, but I hope we don't end up waiving rights to them within a few games and never seeing them in a United uniform.
My Rant... Who cares? I agree with Revelation. What player has come out of the college ranks SINCE Ben Olsen and really made a significant (let alone STAR) type impact? Other then Vaca is there any other RECENT (meaning within like 2 or 3 years) pic starting this weekend in the Allstar game? The only young players of serious talent have been the Twellman's and Donovan's. Or stretching it a bit, a more seasoned pick like Nelsen. --In many ways I think Ben Olsen was a curse on this club. Ben was a special player, heads and tails above these recent bonus babies. He was thrown into a perfect scenerio with this team and thrived. Ever since we have pissed away every talented veteran player we had hoping to get players like him. Short of Quaranta and Convey no one has come f-ing close. (and they are by NO means sure things themselves... At this point in their careers they can't hold Olsen's jock) --if Kevin Payne would have realized that Olsen was the exception and not the rule I really think we might have a few more cups. We didnt need to clean out all of our old players (Agoos, Llamosa, Williams, etc ) One or two could have worked... Trade one for draft picks (for depth off the BENCH not starters...) and the rest for proven MLS veterans making less money. --The vast majority of college players are A-Leaguers at best. And unless you are a moron like that one guy (.....14) thats just not good enough for us. We have plenty on the roster now.
Re: My Rant... Well...... clearly the draft produces more defensive players who have immediate impacts. For instance last year there was Ryan Suarez who clearly meets your challenge in having a significant impact. The year before that a couple of other defenders like Carlos Bocanegra and Nick Garcia also met your challenge. United would clearly love to have any of those three and since we 1) will be picking pretty high in the upcoming draft and 2) there tend to be a couple of significant impact players in every draft I think we could do an awful lot of good for the team next February. But I don't want to get in the way of your rant....
You guys are wack. This will be a strong draft. Every year there is a standout player or two from the collegiate ranks. So, you're telling me you WOULDN'T want to have a rookie like Carlos Bocanegra, Ryan Suarez or Kelly Gray in your defense? All three made impact as rookies. Or are you saying that Ben Olsen, Kyle Martino and Joselita Vaca just couldn't hack it as rookies? None of the last three had even exhausted their collegiate eligibility. Puhleeeeeez. It's always fashionable to overhype before the draft and to underhype during the season. Here are some of my suggestions, but mind you, I was 100% in favor of drafting Justin Mapp, and I still think it was a very wise choice: Knox Cameron F/AM Michigan 19 years old: Big (6'1), fast physical "spine" player. He can (supposedly) play center forward/target forward, attacking midfielder, defensive midfielder, or central defender all with a high degree of ability. Technically he's good and physically he's exceptional. He compares favorably to Kelly Gray. Gray Griffin Dmid/D 20: Defender who can play several defensive positions. Split time with Kelly Gray on the U-20 team. Alex Yi CD UCLA 21: Second team all-american signed professionally with a Serie C team in Italy and the team then released all of its foreign talent in cost cutting move. By signing he lost his remaining eligibility in college. He's now weighing his options but hasn't signed with MLS. Recently trained with United while Gazza was here. He's tall (6'2) and fast, as well as local (MD boy whose brother played for the Bethesda/Baltimore team in the recent youth championships at the SoccerPlex locally. He has ability but is prone to making the mental mistakes sometimes. This gem may need more polishing than the younger ones. Ryan Cochrane CD 18: Organizing central defender is fast and has decent size (6'0) and is very tactically aware. Hunter Freeman D UVa 18: Excellent defender with size (6'0) and speed that plays sweeper. In addition to organizing central defense, he recently played with the Dallas Spurs team in a scrimmage against the Dallas Burn, and repeatedly flew up the wing (he was a wingback) and got off crosses into the box. Total package defender that has good ball skills. Rising impact-freshman at UVa. These guys, if they leave college AND sign with MLS, would be excellent additions to United. They would all be P-40, and play positions that we could allow them to develop into the top performers they most likely will become. Knox could be our 4th forward and give us an aerial game that we presently lack. -Tron
It's a good point that there are defensive or role players in there that can perform, but the track record is not quite as good for offensive needs. Exactly what United will/should be looking to draft. Contrary to some pessimists opinions, our defense is easily good enough. We really need goal scorers or creative midfielders so why should we get excited about possibly having the FIRST pick?! --My point b.s. aside is that people seem to think that the MLS draft is roughly equal to other pro sports drafts. This is not the NBA or NFL and the players that are drafted have a rather poor track record especially in the first 5 to 10 picks. As for getting the next franchise player, a Landon or Ben you will get 10 more Albrights or Carrieri's for each first rounder... IF your lucky. (if i was a smart ass i could name 10 players for each Bocanegra...) There just hasn't been great players in the early rounds generally. Your just as well off digging around in later rounds, because like Revelation pointed out they are ALL projects... (ie VACA?) Maybe if you need immediate quality you can find players of the caliber of an Armstrong or Nelsen. But they are the exception and rare.
The early drafts were crap shoots, with most of what was shot being crap. But over the last few years we are seeing the benefits of having a pro league. The collegiate levels are now producing talent that has gotten more attention and has a future. Now we're seeing much higher quality prospects in the draft, and our ability to evaluate them is increasing as well. It's very hard to argue with the success rate of the last three drafts. Every pro draft in every sport has busts and surprises. While I agree that there are few Shaquille O'Neals or John Elways, I don't think that the top overall pick in those other sports is consistently a great player, at least not at first. I think a Twellman matches favorably with an Elway as far as impact. Leading MLS in scoring is more significant than passing for more yardage or TDs in a rookie season, and Elway did neither. Most top overall picks are more like Aundray Bruce than John Elway. Three years from now the 2002 draft will be considered an excellent one. Chris Gbandi, Justin Mapp, Brad Davis will all be very good players and imprint their style on the game offensively. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a great year for forwards, so if you're looking to get someone better than Santino up top, you're not in luck. As far as our defense is concerned, I agree, we have class at each position, but ZERO depth. These defenders would provide depth ad no cost and eventually the same quality of a Pope, Reyes, Nelsen or Prideaux. They're gonna be pretty good. -Tron
Re: My Rant... Ryan Suarez was the 7th pick in last year's draft and he will be starting in the all-star game today and will likely have to pick which national team he represents. Suarez played 4 years of college ball. Carlos Bocanegra was the 4th pick in the 2000 draft and he'll also be starting in the AS game. He's already got several caps and is expected to play a major role in the national team the next 4 years. He played 3 years at UCLA. Santino Quaranta was the 8th player taken in last year's draft. The year before, Bobby Convey was taken with the 12th pick. I don't need to talk about their contributions to the club or their national team future, do I?. Nick Rimando was taken in the THIRD ROUND of the 2000 draft and has been a starting 'keeper since mid-way through his rookie year and played well enough to get called into the national team several times. Kelly Gray was picked 5th this year while Jim Curtin was another third rounder last year. Both are regular starters for the Fire and are gonna get looks from the national team. Not over pick makes it, but there is talent out there. If the team scouts the colleges and youth national teams and does its homework - unlike this past draft - good talent can be found in the first 3 rounds of the draft and this should be a very strong draft coming up and DC should come out of it with a good player who will contribute.
DCU's needs are obvious ---- FORWARD..... DC needs an allocation level attacking player. That player will NOT come out of the college draft. And as Soccer America, (and a host of other pubs) has said many times before, the future of soccer in this country is not going to be based on the college game.
"Isn't the team is already too young?" Hudson asked rhetorically in one of the "Practice Reports"and that he didn't expect to use next year's draft other than to trade away picks for more established players. Yes, Suarez and Bocanegra, Kelly Gray, and a couple of others can walk on to a team and make an impact. However, assuming there aren't major changes to the starting 11 next season - (3-5-2 w/ 2 defensive mids) Rimando, Pope, Reyes, Prideaux, Nelsen [SI], Williams, Olsen, Etch, Convey, Q1, Moreno [SI] - anyone picked up will be a long term project or bench player. If etcheverry retires, I've got to assume RH will go out and get an impact foriegn player using the open foriegn spot and Etcheverry's salary to sign him. The team is fairly solid with some backups. Namoff backs up Williams; Mapp - Convey; Q2 and Curtis - Moreno and Q1; McGinty - Rimando. The team also has Ludwig in the reserve slot. With Q2, Curtis, and Ludwig up top, all solid bench players, the forward line is set - just pray that the team doesn't go through another spate of injuries to that position next season! It looks as if RH & Co. might be trying to strengthen the bench. Alegria could be kept as an extra midfielder, but at the cost of eating one of the valuable SI spots next season. Although nothing is definate, it is likely that Ammann is going to retire - he's already working on his TV presentation via one of the local cable channels, so I've been told. No worries because McGinty is there. However, a late round draft pick of one of the monster GKs coming out next year (or one of those that is in the A-League) could be an option. That leaves Lassiter, Villegas, and McKinley's spots. Q1's promotion will take over one of those spots. So, a draft/trade will be needed for the other two. If i were Hudson/Kasper, trade the #1 and #15 picks for solid player(s) that will challenge someone for a starting position. Use the #11 to fill the vacated Q1 reserve squad with one of the young upcoming players. It doesn't matter what position you draft with your first pick, you simply take the best player available.
This is the one big problem with Ray. He just doesn't recognize U.S talent. Gray would have been a teemendous asset this year for United (and he was available when we picked). Soemhow, Bradley (who has a much more talented team) always seems to find room for the players he drafts and gets useful filed time out of them (which is what a good coach is supposed to do). Also, Ray likes to complain about his shortage of forward talent and next year's draft may well be loaded at that position (Jaqua, Eskandarian, Noonan, Tranchilla can all play in this league). And IMO Dunivant is goinf to be a star. But then Ray seems to forget MLS is a U.S league started to develop U.S. talent. Please MLS.....no more foreign coaches (Canadians are OK in my book though).
So good points here that I want to blither about: -Ray has a big and probably justified rep about favoring vets over kids, but the signing of Q2 shows that he isn't against youth completely. So I'd expect to see the #1 pick used as trade bait- and maybe the #15 pick too as Diceson strategies, but it will really depend on our roster situation at the time of the draft that may determine things. -IF Etch retires is such a huge IF, with the added third choice of Etch coming back at a reduced salary. Etch's status alone will shape our offseason moves. -As stated by Ray and above our #1 needs are at forward. Knox Cameron is getting a lot of hype right now and could possibly go #1. Is he another Ali Curtis, who went #2 last year or another Taylor Twellman? Is there a forward available in the league who warrants the #1- Washington? Rhine? Of course trading for a forward- a top sub or a starter means that we will eat into our salary cap big time as opposed to drafting a forward. Would we spend the #1 pick on someone who's not a forward? As Diceson mentioned above, Alegria will be an SI next year and therefore highly highly vulnerable to a trade or waiver. In essence this was his make or break year and it's hard to see at this point that Ray will give the final SI slot to him. If Etch retires than we use the final SI slot there. If Etch stays, Ray may still want to use the final SI slot on a foreigner (forward or a-mid) which still means bye-bye Chino. Let's say that Ray goes foreign for a forward. (It will be either a forward or a central mid of some type.) Chino is then gone. We then have four forwards (Moreno, Q1, Q2, new forward)- five if you count Curtis at minimum wage. So maybe then we keep the #1 pick or use it in trade for depth elsewhere- Eric Quill in KC for instance. Quill was eclipsed in KC this year by Armstrong but he's still a good player and an upgrade over Alegria. Or Pete Vaengas to work with Williams at d-mid since we are most likely going to a 352 as our set formation and we thus need another d-mid. Or we use the #1 pick on one of several defenders who could add some quality depth. I agree that our starting defense is very good, but I contend that it isn't deep enough. McKinley will be retiring and we have to replace him with a defender. DT above has pointed out a couple of these guys.
DRN, IMO, you've made a good observation regarding RH's assessment of US talent. How much of the problem with last year's draft was Ray's unfamiliarity with the players (after all, he was signed as DC coach only a week before the draft) or his suppposed bias against US players. In his defense, when you're being judged on the current team's performance (as in Miami) he probably did need to get veteran, foreign players to make a positive impact. And they certainly did. I am assuming that he does not have that same pressure for this year with DC United. It would seem to me that he has a grace period to work with/develop some of DC's young talent and has chosen to trade for veterans, again. This is what bothers me. Winoman
I don't think Knox Cameron will be the top selection, but he's certainly better than Ali Curtis. Curtis never passes nore even looks for other options. He's a bull in the china shop type player that gets the ball and runs with it directly toward goal. Once he gets close he tries to figure out what to do with it. He has precious little ball skills, no passing skills and NEVER makes an intelligent run. He's a nice guy and a smart kid ... dunno why he doesn't figure this stuff out. Knox Cameron is an attacking midfielder in the Brian Maisoneuve mold but with a strikers mentality and aggressiveness. Also, he's big and strong like Nelsen (but taller) and faster than Santino. I think Knox and Santino would compliment each other nicely, because both have vision and are unselfish. Both are also big and fast (well Santino is sorta fast for his size). With those two and Moreno and Eliseo, we wouldn't really have to worry about injuries like we did this season. All are adequate up top. Also, Knox can shift back to Dmid and become an enforcer Hmid next to our Dmid in the back. He will not lose the ball like Ritchie does, he will tackle hard like Nelsen, win balls in the air and he has the passing ability to quickly link the back line with the fowards. Also, he can drift forward unmarked occasionally like Simon Elliott does so well. This creates goals. In addition, he is a better target striker than United has presently, so he can open up some set pieces, particularly against a bunkered team. His versatility allows us to switch it up and move Nelsen, Pope or both of them forward while Knox drobs back. Knox is skilled and versatile, which is invaluable on this roster. Think of him as a Chino type player in Nelsen's body with Santino's speed. Not a bad player to have. -Tron
With all due respect John, this is the crux of the problem for United this year and in past years.. This team is NOT fairly solid with backups.. What more proof does one need than to see what has happened this year with all the injuries.. Nothing.. I think we the fans tend to overrate our bench players a smidge... This team is truly awful and one of the major factors is because the bench players have failed to produce time and time again.. As for the Ray Hudson issue, I was probably one of the first guys to voice my displeasure at the hiring of Hudson for one single reason, overreliance on veteran talent.. He seemed to eschew all attempts at playing youth talent at Miami (due mainly to his success and basic non-injury status of his veteran players) at any chance during his 1 1/2 years at Miami.. He has said as much in the press that he values the experience of said players rather than putting youngsters into the fray.. That is understandable but not exactly the way to go in MLS these days.. As Arena stated post World Cup, "it's a young mans game now".. Hudson doesn't want to seem to grasp that notion and seems quite antiquaited in the process and this will ultimately lead to his downfall IMHO with this team.. I love Ray's candor and enthusiasm, but the bottom line here is developing a team and constantly recycling aging talent is no way to do this.. Draft wisely and stick with them.. As you can see, we are certainly reaping the dividends of this last draft (Kante - released, Mapp - a whopping 3 minutes of action in 20 MLS games).. My greatest fear is that Hudson will indeed trade away our probable #1 pick for an "established player" that will bring us nothing in the end except for maybe a year or two of good play and then have nothing to show for it while the team that got our #1 pick will most likely be showing off their player for years to come.. Rant over.........
I totally agree. While we have some utility players, we need to upgrade in specific areas including a target forward and at least two back line players. Chino can play anywhere in the midfield servicably, but if we keep him we need more out of Lazo. McKinley can play left back in a 4 man line but needs to be a central defender in a 352. If he is a Dmid, then he needs a speedy partner at Dmid. Williams is a great Dmid destroyer, but he's no link man. He needs a compliment. Lazo is NOT it. McKinley may or may not be it, but is likely a backup not a starter. United gets pathetic results on set pieces ... let's finally get people who are strong aerially so we can insert them when teams bunker. Or, at least bring both Nelsen and Pope forward and shift Prideaux, Williams and Reyes back on set pieces. -Tron
August Edition of Ursuline Props to GersMan (fan of the Glasgow Rangers and bigtime supporter of US youth soccer) for giving us the August Edition of Ursuline magazine's rating of the top 100 US players. Of note, there are SEVERAL youth players in this group, many of which are of note to DC United fans and should be considered in the 2003 SuperDraft. GersMan's post is the first in this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4362 Some selected highlights include: #4 Goalkeeper Nick Rimando #16 Defender J. Hunter Freeman (whom I have been touting for some time) #5 Attacking Midfielders and Winger Bobby Convey #11 Attacking Midfielders and Winger Ben Olsen #13 Attacking Midfielders and Winger Justin Mapp #1 Wildcard (Utility Players) Knox Cameron #5 Wildcard Alex Yi -Tron