Who saw US-Mexico? Well, I saw the entire game last night, and I can tell you exactly what happenned. First of all, as much as it pains me to say it, Mexico played extremely well. This would have made for a very exciting game, had our guys not played like horse-scrote. Donovan barely touched the ball all night. Nobody, with the exception of Beaz, was making any effort at decent runs off the ball. There was absolutely NO sense of urgency from our side. When Mexico would get posession, they would attack forward quickly. In contrast, when we would get posession, we lingered back, and passed around in the back and midfield so long, that all of Mexico's players had time to get back, and by then it was too congested to do anything. Even when we had decent chances to head for goal, the passing was horrible...we just kept giving the ball away. As far as defense goes, it was a complete mess. I honestly don't believe that our defenders had the technical ability to deal with Mexico's attack. A big dissapointment. Our guys looked lost out there. Although I think our team could beat Mexico's on any given night, last night was not it. And even though I despise them, I have to give Mexico their props for a solid game (with the exception of all the diving...That's the most annoying crap on the planet...Just stand up and play like a man PACO!) Mexico deserved to win for their performance, just as much as we deserved to lose for ours...Nevertheless, keep your chins up, better not qualifying for Athens than Germany '06. Will will be avenged! Any thoughts from anyone else who saw that turd-fest?
watched the games as well....agree with your assessment... our defense was horrible.... donovan was invisible the WHOLE game...convey looked like crap.... what i don't understand is why on god's earth does johnson get a start when he's done absolutely nothing. eski gets a hat trick and should've started.... johnson was a disappointment in the U-17 world cup a few months ago and here.... also, gaven played well when he got in....unlike the other players (except for beasley as noted) he looked like he wanted to win no matter what.... really crap outing for our U-23's
"i wouldn't say he looked like crap bob..." seriously, did he miss sitters in the U20? sure he did but in no way would anyone say that he was a disappointment, and just saying that makes your statement look rediculous. i will agree with the assesment that after someone scores a freaking hat-trick <alecko> they should get the start over someone who hasn't proven a whole lot at the U23 level...yet...
I definitely agree that not starting Alecko was a huge mistake. I'm not sure what the rationale behind that one could have been.
Horrible I also wathced the whole game and I totally agree with your assesment, we looked like horse dodo. Defense was horrible, completely horrible. The guy on the right side was getting beat on a consistent basis, they were crossing fields with ease, and exploited our weak marking jobs. Countess sucks also, he did not show authority in the box at all, can the guy jump at all. The first two goals our guys were completely out of position, man I am soooo frustrated right now. So is it the coach that is to blame for not putting the right people on the field, the goalie for not owning the box, the players for not getting up for this game. I guess we should of seen it coming in a way, we gave up 6 quick goals in the first round, we knew it and they knew it that our defense was crap. Mexi played a great game, and had our number on every level. Sidenote - who our goalkeeper in the olympic qualy's in 2000? If that was our best u23's then we will be in trouble in years to come.
No D Mexico owned our defenders, especially Wingert at left back the first half. They played over the top, connecting more often than not and overlapped on the outside beating us with numbers. They also made good supporting runs to press the attack. Their players had several good passing options. Mexico also pressed us all over the field, forcing many give-away long balls by our defense. The US also tried some long ball tactics but could not control the ball and generate any offensive threat. I think the US only had one shot on goal the first half, while Mexico was dangerous throughout. The better team won tonight.
Re: Horrible I agree about Countess...He looked like a frightened little girl out there...As far as fault goes, I think that's a combo deal...The coach deserves some fault for not inspiring the players, and for not finding a way to turn it around at halftime. Most of the players are at fault for playing poorly, or not even touching the ball (Beaz excluded...As earlier stated, although he didn't play up to his potential, I think he did his best and left it all out on the field.). But I don't think Countess deserves any MORE blame than, say, the back line that allowed the Tri attackers to walk right into the box time after time.
Huge mistake? Would he have had that big of an impact? Actually, in retrospect, I agree that either he or Beckerman maybe should have started -- given our problems on the backline and our problems breaking down their defense, maybe Mooch should have started Convey at left back. His speed, skill and composure might have shored up the total deer in the headlights defense, and his abilities wouldn't have been neutralized in midfield. I don't agree that a straight EJ for Alecko swap would have made much difference, even though EJ was pretty ineffective last night, like much of the team. I'm not sure how much one can rationally blame Countess for the goals, but I'm just not a fan. I said it before the tournament, but he seems out to lunch everytime I see him.
You're right on that point...There were A LOT of mistakes, and having Alecko in the game probably would not have made a difference without a lot of other drastic changes on nearly every level. I guess I overstated the impact of having Alecko in the game.
I watched the game on closed circuit at a Salvadoran restaurant in Alexandria. It was as bad a performance I’ve seen by a US team in a meaningful game. I wouldn’t recommend that any US fan watch this game on tape-delay unless they’re into self-flagellation. The US defense was as shaky as we had feared it might be. Borchers, Wingert and Lewis were all overmatched. In the first 20 minutes or so of the game most of Mexico’s attack came from their left but yielded only one dangerous shot. In about minute 25 Mexico was again attacking down that side, overmatched Borchers grabbed his man (like he would continue to do until his 2nd yellow) to try to slow things down but the ref correctly let play continue since Mexico had the advantage. They switched the ball to a very wide open player on the right wing and he crossed it into the penalty area for a headed goal. It was disappointing to see the US give up the goal but Mexico had played it nicely. What is unforgivable is that in the ensuing 3 or 4 minutes Mexico twice more got a player wide open in the same spot leading to another goal and a hard shot off the near post (with the keeper beaten). Clearly Wingert was getting schooled at the left back position but I never noticed Beasley or others in the picture to provide any help. Mooch brought on Beckerman for Wingert at halftime. On the kickoff Mexico immediately sent the ball forward to their right winger who was wide open once again on the right side of our penalty area and created a dangerous scoring chance. It was as though the US hadn’t even attempted to correct its most glaring defensive deficiency at halftime. But don’t blame it all on the defense because our offense was completely punchless. The Mexican keeper was pretty much unchallenged until a header by Esky (late sub for EJ) in the final 10 minutes. We never saw Donovan, Beasley and Convey using wall passes and taking on defenders at speed as they’ve been able to do as recently as the Nats friendly with Denmark. Actually I barely even saw the invisible Donovan. Mexico could have bunkered and played the counterattack after grabbing the lead. But they never had to since we were unable to maintain possession for long. Mexico deserves credit for their defense and well-executed game plan. We were thoroughly outclassed in every facet of the game and the score could have been more lopsided. Good luck in Athens.
Quit simple our players looked like they were not ready for the big stage. For all the talk of a winning attitude we have, it wasn't there. In my opinion what is lacking in our players is not skill or talent but the ability to handle the pressure of big games. In Europe and South America teams and players face big games, high intensity, and pressure much more than our players. MLS is has been great for player development but it does not offer the kind of intensity day in and day out that other leagues and competitions do. If you look at the strategy of Mexico during the game, they pressured our players whenever they had the ball, this resulted in bad passes or lose of possession. Even when our players had time they made bad decisions and very standard simple plays that lead to nothing. On a positive note these players are still young and some of them have a chance to get into playing environments that will build the confidence and capability of handle big game situations.
Costa Rica and Mexico played a better game through out the qualifiers. I could see this coming, but hoped that maybe the US might be able to sneak its way to Athens, but oh well...maybe in 4 more years Adu and company might be able to fair better... That was a nice little ass whipping the boys took. And this is the core of players that the US willl field in 2006?
I didn't see the game, but I will say this. The 4-0 a$$ whooping reflects your assessment, and rightfully so.
The US team had trouble all tournament. Giving up 3 goals to Panama and 3 goals to Honduras, the writing was on the wall. This result was not a surprise. How much can be blamed on Mooch, how much on our not bringing the best 23, and how much on our players underperforming is unknown. I will say this, though, when our players are lifeless on the field, I look to the coach. Bye Mooch.
I only followed the games on matchtracker, but from what I've gathered I hope the red card not only ejected Borchers from the game, but from the national team picture as well. We have no room for slow and not good defenders. Now if only Bruce sees what Califf is?
The way I see it, considering that I showed up (at a shady Mexican "restaurant") for the game, and Landon didn't, that mofo owes me the 10 dollars I paid to get in, 6 bucks for the two beers I drank, and 5 bucks worth of gas I used to get to and from the "restaurant". That's 21 bucks, baldy...I don't take personal checks.
The most worrisome part of this embarrassment is the absolute failure of the midfield to produce. A 4-0 loss and an 18-4 shot difference is awful. It has to be pinned on a midfield that did not do its man-to-man defending very well. If the midfield breaks down, the quality of the defense only determines whether the result is a blowout or not. That said, I worry about the defensive work by both Convey and Beasley. What were they doing? I mention them because they are the experienced guys. Donovan, too, but his case is a bit different. If matters a lot whether he was instructed to stay forward for goals or to roam more as a midfielder. One has to conclude that Brad Davis was not up to the task, either. The problem of ineffective midfielders who are Americans (particularly central midfielders) is a big one in the MLS. Martino plays there. I like his work with the ball, but I'm not convinced his defensive skills are any better than those of the guys who just lost to Mexico.
If you were at Las Vegas, I was there too... Anyway, a few thoughts -- no doubt echoing much of what's been said already. Here's my thoughts on the Big Three -- Bobby, Beasley and Landon are all speedsters who love to run onto balls put into space. We probably didn't do that five times all game. Beasley and Donovan didn't get one decent ball to run onto that I can remember -- and Beasley at a standstill with the ball at his feet is nothing special. Convey had a few, but he was supposed to be running our midfield, not chasing long balls. I have to admit that after this game, I can understand why Bruce looks at Convey as an outside player. He's very skilled, but he's at his best making long runs off the ball and putting pressure on the defense to stay with him. But when he did that yesterday, he left a huge hole in the midfield that Logan Pause just couldn't cover. (Kudos, I should add, to Kyle Beckerman for coming on very strong as a player since being left off the U-20 team for his age group.) Maybe Rico Clark could have done better -- hard to say. Maybe Convey is a striker. But given the aggressiveness of his runs, we either need him outside or we need Pat Vieira at D-Mid. I won't touch on the defense much because I know it's been done to death. I will add that hey, guess what -- even Ricky Lewis can be beaten for speed! But I have no idea what was going on on our right wing all night. Brad Davis came inside too much, and with Ricky pushing foward there was nothing but space for the Mexicans there. Wingert, meanwhile, looked afraid to move forward at all, leaving big gaps between him and Beasley. There are a million "shouldas" about this game, especially with regard to roster issues... But for now I'm satisfied to say that the Mexicans will always be a tough rival and we shouldn't want it any other way. We should NEVER expect a win on the road in Mexico when pride and stakes are on the line. Of course, we should also never expect to get embarassed like we did. In the end, though, I don't want to take anything away from a great game from the Mexicans. They beat us technically, tactically and physically and deserved every big of the learnin' they dropped on us. Congrats and good luck in the Olympics. There's some consolation, I suppose, in Honduras losing to Costa Rica after playing us soft last Saturday -- but not much.
Re: Horrible Come on, people. Where have some of you been during the past few weeks - under a rock? Do you know much about this team? Have you followed it at all? If not, please don't make comments like the above. No, this WAS NOT all of our best U23's. In fact, just about our entire starting defenders were missing in the Mexico game - in addition to a starting midfielder and a starting forward. About half of the team. Let me explain to those who have been in Mars during the past few weeks: Two of our better defenders, Alex Yi (Antwerp F.C.) and Oguchi Onyewu (La Louviere) were not released by their European clubs despite a request from the USSF to do so. This has to do with the FIFA window during which they allow such releases for international play, but that is a discussion for another post. Another of our starting defenders, Zack Whitbread (Liverpool), was injured in the first game against Panama and went back to the U.K. Another defender, KC Wizards' Jose Burciaga, had to sit out due to the cards he received during this tourney. Midfielder Ricardo Clark (Metrostars) was injured during training camp and, thus, did not participate in the tournament. Ditto for one of our starting forwards, Edson Buddle (Columbus Crew). Another U23 forward, Conor Casey, also did not make it back from his German team, FC Karlsruher. Having said the above, we could have had the above players, plus Pele in his prime, and it would not have made a difference the way the Mexicans played last night. This IS NOT the core of players that will field in 2006. Watch the match against Holland next week and you'll see more of the "core" of players. From this team, Donovan & Beasley are probably the only likely starters, with Convey an outside chance if a defender. That's it. The rest will be lucky to make the team. I agree. It was a lousy game and we had our asses handed to us. However, please stop with the "sky is falling" crap.
Given the way we leaked goals all tournament, the 4 is hardly a shock. But the 0 is a big disappointment, as is the number of shots for each team. ????!!!! Not hardly. Beasley and Donovan, likely, Convey maybe. Who else is gonna be starting in 2006?
Re: Re: Horrible Kelly Gray was in Bradenton training with the Fire and should have been selected. Mooch made some glaring mistakes in selection and strategy and it may cost him.
Good analysis, Dave. Yes, I was part of the small group of US fans sitting at the end of the bar near the entrance. BS posters parmigiano and entropy and a few others.
Nice post, Dave. Hey, you weren't the guy with the bottle of red to himself, where you? As to Convey, you hit it on the button. This is exactly why I thought he succeeded so well in the U20 WYC -- that is, he had major cover behind him, both defensive (Rico) and holding (Grabavoy). With that, he was able to play his all-out attacking game. But whenever I see the kid in the middle of a 442, I always come away with the sense that he just doesn't hold the ball up enough, have the steady patience or defend enough to play that position properly. Convey, when playing Amid at least, is just not 2way enough to sustain the middle of the pitch in a 442. But I really liked him in the 4231 in Qatar. And of course, he could always improve his weak points, tho I think his essence is all about those runs.