Who is the most overrated all time great?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Neron Nuñez, Jul 7, 2024.

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Who are the most overrated all time greats?

  1. R9

    10 vote(s)
    22.7%
  2. Zidane

    8 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. Cristiano Ronaldo

    19 vote(s)
    43.2%
  4. Ronaldinho

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    Firstly ..... Ronaldo Nazario ... has 24 dribbles completed ...at World Cup 1998


    i saw all the whole matches ... from this World Cup 1998 ... even ..in Brazil ... onTv


    they showing all the trainings Sessions here at the age . !



    average Of 3, 42 % dribbles made per 90 minutes ...





    Ronaldo Nazario de Lima !

    19 matches
    43 dribbles completed in World Cups ... ( 24 ) World Cup... 1998

    + 19 dribbles completed ... 2002 and 2006 . !
     
  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    Ronaldinho Gaucho ...
    In Brazil he is heavily criticized for his low level of decision-making power in big matches.




    behaviour in big matches .... 0, 48 % only
     
  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    League table
    [edit]
    Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification or relegation
    1 Internazionale (C) 38 24 10 4 75 34 +41 .. 82
    2 Roma 38 24 8 6 68 41 +27 .. 80
    3 Milan 38 20 10 8 60 39 +21 ..70




    2009/10
    Ronaldinho 36 matches .... 12 goals ....... 14 assists or 13 assists 2009/10 (the best assister provider from this competition )

    was 12 points behind the champion !
    vs


    G+A ======= 25 OR 26 (+1 assist there )

    League table
    [edit]
    Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification or relegation
    1 Milan (C) 34 19 12 3 36 15 +21 ..50
    2 Juventus 34 17 13 4 58 25 +33 .47
    3 Sampdoria 34 18 8 8 64 39 +25 . 44


    Ruud Gullit 31 matches .... 15 goals ..... 13 assists ( 12 direct assists and 1 indirect assist Heading Accuracy an own goal against Torino away game )

    the best assister provider from this competition )

    was 6 points behind the champion !


    G+A ====== 28
     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

















    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7158uQk1yI


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uldZ0MMPbgI&t=742s


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pbi74Z0w8Q&t=2653s



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH5TpyJC6oM&t=1s


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ot-cZRbM0Q


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weS_70lRUv0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weS_70lRUv0



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt9_vSG0bQ4


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_VqcvWwRE8


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMYiVFpm7iI

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=psg+vs+auxerre+2003+cup+french



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNSPKpofI7g

    Drogba destroying with Ronaldinho ..



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJppt6xcZv4&t=323s


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PADZUMGLfc&t=79s
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    2008/09
    League table
    [edit]
    Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification or relegation
    1 Internazionale (C) 38 25 9 4 70 32 +38 84 Qualification to Champions League group stage
    2 Juventus 38 21 11 6 69 37 +32 74[a]
    3 Milan 38 22 8 8 70 35 +35 74[a]



    Ronaldinho
    Matches
    29

    Goals
    8


    Assists
    5
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024










    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/78aCgtfg4iA


    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z-Xx2vOVDOY
     
  7. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Copa America is and was a joke tournament
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  8. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    The simple truth is his playstyle and performance in the 3 world cups - 2 of which he was overweight and post injury - is not representative of the player he was in the 90s. Point blank. Trying to act like R9 was not an extroardinary dribbler is a weird hill to die on
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    yes weaker Level mainly then from 1995 !
     
  10. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  11. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024




    1# Ronaldinho Gaucho


    2# Ronaldo Nazario


    3# Zinedine Zidane



    honestly .. i don't know ..why C.Ronaldo ...is on this list here..


    i put David Beckham .... not C. Ronaldo !
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  12. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Having watched all his full games against Real Madrid, Juventus and ManUtd in the 90s I can say that his World Cup 98 performance were even better than his form at clubs. Unless you're saying the matches against mid table Valencia and relegated Compostela. Do you want to compare prime Cristiano Ronaldo against mid table/relegated teams to this?
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  13. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    For various reasons Ronaldo's numbers in 1998 may not reflect his career in terms of dribbling: Ronaldo Nazario suffered a stroke in the final which reduced his stats, in inter he often played further back with Zamorano as a nine, a tournament with few games etc

    There are several precedents. For example: Zico. In 1978, Zico had 1.8 shots on goal per game and 1.7 key passes. In 1982, Zico had 5.2 shots per game and 3.4 key passes.
     
    SayWhatIWant repped this.
  14. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    They were different players. They were both great.

    Just as nobody says that Gullit was poor after leaving AC Milan, Ronaldinho had his moments after leaving Barcelona.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  15. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    At Barça he played as a lone striker and at inter he played a attacking duo with zamorano and Djorkaeff behind the two. Like in the WC 98 when he played alongside Bebeto which were his "Zamorano" on Brazilian NT.

    What the performance of Zico on two different years has to do with this?
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024














    They are speaking Brazilian Portuguese there :


    The problem is Ronaldinho FanBoys in Brazil... Spain (Barcelona fans mainly) and Latin America in general..



    Ronaldinho Gaucho Fans talking this ...always


    #1 Madness.. they talk and point out Ronaldinho as being the best player in the history of World Football, ahead of the others.. is crazything on my view




    2# Madness... He had the best peak in the History of the Football
    is crazything on my view





    3# Madness He is the most+++ talented and skilled or skillful player in the History of World Football of all times
    is crazything on my view
     
  17. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    Ronaldo did very well in 1998 and 2002. G+A leader in both World Cups.

    The discussion is whether the dribbling numbers counted by Opta (1.9) were Ronaldo's numbers at his peak at Inter and Barcelona or whether he dribbled more at club level.

    Zico is an example of a World Cup (1978) that didn't show his true peak.

    Bebeto left the area more, Zamorano stayed more

    bebeto.png
     
  18. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    Yeah, that's crazy.

    But Ronaldinho was a rare combination of magic, volume (assist leader) and titles (ucl, ballon d'or). Neymar lacked the latter. It's normal to have a lot of fans. A rare player.
     
  19. Letmepost

    Letmepost Member

    Arsenal
    South Korea
    Apr 11, 2023
    All I can say is I remember (not that my memory is particularly accurate) Ronaldo Nazario having a more concentrated frequency of solo-goals that contained a dribble for that specific pre-injury time-frame. That is a separate issue from OPTA criteria for overall dribble volume, which I have not seen a lot of substantial evidence either way in my eyes.

    What if we lacked all data for professional club seasons for Cristiano Ronaldo, and tried to awkwardly conclude that he was essentially finished as a dribbler from 2010 onwards, extrapolating from World Cup data only?

    Cristiano Ronaldo was one of the top dribblers in La Liga for the 2009/2010 season, but finished with lower dribbles than Ji-Sung Park (in the 2010 World Cup, despite playing with superior teammates). I wouldn't even argue the point that Ji-Sung Park was the most potent dribbler from Korea in general for that time-frame, performances in that specific tournament aside.

    I personally do not remember (though my memory isn't that great) pre-injury Ronaldo Nazario as somebody who got involved an insane amount in general state of play through dribbles, but was somebody certainly capable of performing insane penetrating dribbles towards the goal.

    I could be wrong, but extrapolating statistics for an entire domestic season off a single World Cup, regardless of whether it fits the era or not, seems just as capable of creating erroneous conclusions, as trying to pretend all fan-driven tallies of more subjective on-field actions are perfectly aligned with modern-day OPTA standards.
     
  20. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil


    0:24 dribble attempt failed
    0:33 dribble attempt failed
    1:35 dribble attempt failed
    1:42 dribble attempt failed

    0 successful dribbles in this game as per opta definitions
     
  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    for me Neymar Jr ... is better than Ronaldinho easily



    731 matches
    447 goals
    255 assists



    vs

    Ronaldinho
    813 matches
    300 goals
    232 assists ..( according to TransferMarkt ...and including even penalties suffered by own Ronaldinho Gaucho )
     
  22. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yeah but as you said, he weren't at his peak in 78. Ronaldo were at his peak in WC 98 and even if we exclude his final game against France he still has a lower average than peak Cristiano

    As for Zamorano, yeah, he stayed more in the box but also did more out of the box
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  23. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    i agree with you dear mate ...!
     
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    dribbles made per 90 minutes in World Cups History All editions :

    1 # Mané Garrincha ... 1962 ..................10, 33 per game
    2# Diego Armando Maradona 1986 7, 57 per game ..
    3# Lionel Messi ...... 2014 6, 57 per game

    Jairzinho .... 1966.. 70 ... 74 ..... . 4, 93 per game
    Pelé ......... 58 .,, 62 .... 66 ... 70 ...... 5, 57 per game
    Johan Cruyff ,,... 1974 ..... ..4, 85 ,,,..... per game
    Eusébio ..........1966 ....... ..5, 83 ,,,,,, per game ...
    Franz Beckenbauer ...... 1966... 70 ... 74 ........ 2, 38 per game ...

    ....Ronaldo Nazario ............... 1998 ........... 3, 42 per game
    ........Ronaldinho Gaucho ............2002 and 2006 ........ 2, 60 per game
    ......... Zinedine Zidane ...... 1998... 2002 ...2006 ....... 3, 58 per game
    .........Ronaldo Nazario ... 1998 ...2002 ..and 2006 ............ 2, 26 per game ..!
     

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