Sure, this is a more apt approach in my opinion. Since I don't want to base my opinions on highlights, I'll watch the 1974 World Cup games for both teams and get back to you on my personal opinion, in terms of the order of importance, and the rough disparity between each ranks. It won't solve the issue addressed, but it will show our perspectives on their respective performances in the 1974 World Cup. If you have already watched the games, you can share your opinions, but I'll avoid reading them to prevent watching the footage with strong preconceptions. If I seem like I'm ignoring you, it is because I'm not done formulating my thoughts.
I noticed @Krokko had posted this 1970 World Cup ratings summary (perhaps derived from Kicker ratings Krokko?) - I know West Germany didn't 'win something' that time though, but still it's in their general golden 70s period anyway Football Ratings: West Germany ratings in the 1970 World Cup 7,46 Wolfgang Overath 7,35 Franz Beckenbauer 6,95 Jürgen Grabowski, Karl-Heinz Schnellinger 6,75 Uwe Seeler 6,70 Sigfried Held 6,67 Willi Schulz 6,58 Gerd Müller 6,46 Berti Vogts 6,44 Reinhard Libuda 6,25 Hannes Löhr 6,20 Sepp Maier 6,06 Horst-Dieter Höttges
Ronaldo nazario vs Theo Walcott in the UEFA champions league Ronaldo nazario in the UCL 14 goals+9 assists in 2911 minutes 0.71 goals+assists per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...iga/0/wettbewerb/CL/pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1 Theo Walcott 15 goals+10 assists in 2991 minutes 0.75 goals+assists per 90 Theo Walcott - Detailed stats (Detailed view) | Transfermarkt Injury history Theo Walcott 250 career games missed through injury https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/theo-walcott/verletzungen/spieler/33713 Ronaldo nazario 247 career games missed through injury https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ronaldo/verletzungen/spieler/3140
I agree with you dear Mate ! Congratulations...for his Job ...always ... shows me ...too much courage ..and BraveHeart ... to show the dark side of the Sun ... on Ronaldo Nazario ... ..honestly .... i saw ...whole career ...whole matches .... between 1997 and 1999 he was a phenomenon in World Football... for example with a better peak or prime than Ronaldinho from Rio Grande do Sul individually speaking... But before 1997...and after 1999 he was always a worse Poacher compared to Gerd Muller... Ferenc Puskas at Real Madrid..Van Basten ...Coutinho...Sandor Kocsis ...Romário .. Eusebio.. Cruyff.. as False nine or Poacher..at Ajax times...later Cruyff became libero.. midfielder...at Barcelona etc ..etc... .. Walter Casa Grande Jr...putting Ronaldo Nazario on his pocket .... ...
hahahahaha ... yes Excuses ... excuses for not doing the dirty work... and always necessary in Professional Football
... .. .. .. .. .. .. . Professionals Mind ...Looking this ... ..... https://www.google.com/search?q=Ant...ate=ive&vld=cid:63a7e70e,vid:LTLygYsGf8M,st:0 Fools Mind looking this ...
The Pedernera re-created goal, for Millonarios vs Boca Juniors de Cali, is from this documentary then apparently (with also other re-created goals by Di Stefano and others on there): " After the success of the book 'The Best Team in the World' by Mauricio Silva (@msilvaazul), the journalist joined filmmaker Yesid Vásquez and researcher Felipe Valderrama to recall the best era of the Millonarios of 'El Dorado', with unpublished images, recovered and restored from the Colombian film heritage and an in-depth investigation. Its premiere will be this Sunday, April 7 on Señal Colombia. SUBSCRIBE:" See the example formation at 7:11 too (Di Stefano also included Cozzi and Pini in all-time XIs at one point or another as we have discovered - different points actually as it was Cozzi in one in 1960 and Pini in one picked in 1982) This is probably off main topic again (I guess Pedernera is more a candidate for in effect most under-rated player if anything), but I thought it was interesting to put the context here (I suppose these re-created goals are a little bit akin to the ones of Pele scoring famous goals for example).
Yes, Pedernera is one of the all-time greats. I remember researching football in the 40s and 50s to edit articles on wiki (I did few articles on wiki in Spanish and Portuguese), and Pedernera was highly regarded in the newspapers of the time, and in a Copa America that Argentina won, an expert pointed out that the difference between Brazil and Argentina was that Pedernera went back to the line of defence to get the ball and set up the play (an observation made in many games today for other players).
I'll say that... RG had a way better carreer than it's said (for instance people act like if his fantastic return to Brazil was nothing). He was a maverick, but even as gifted as he was, he wasn't as intelligent as Diego with similar entertaining traits, nor as assertive and intelligent as Zico. What a joy of a player, but he didn't invent that ubber entertaing approach and also not few times when some of this extremely gifted players pull out some extra entertaining play it's more an example of not being capable of pulling (or even seeing) a more productive faster play, than just an strict example of talent as weird as it might sound. Zizou was fantastic, finesse personified, extraordinary, but in a global view I alwayshated when people compared him against Platini and treated Michel like a lesser player. This last one for me, it's overall a better player. Cristiano is a phenom, but never saw him as a genius all around type. He is a case where people goes to extremes, from consider him only driven that just worked to be better, to some sort of Genius above Maradona in terms talent. Neither is right, he was born gifted as hell, just not as talented as others normally so called GOATS or Geniuses. On the other hand he had a carreer that many of other "GOATS" would dream of and this has a lot of weight in his consideration. R9 it's so likeable, so spectacular, that sometimes things get out of proportions with him. As capable as he was doing almost everything, he wasn't overall as complete as other offensive players so called GOATS, he was like CR, more incline to be a forward and goalscorer. Romario for me was an absolute Phenom, a better finisher and even more intelligent. Yet he certainly embodied a type of big forward that just makes you fall in love. So nig. skilled, so powerful. The thing it's that because of his injuries, the IFs get out of proportions, like if even Maradona didn't had any like other trully special specimens. He Reigned in the explosion of marketing of the 90's, of global TV and he was rightfully made an ICON. But if he was analyzed under a microscope, like current players are, he woudn't look as PERFECT as he is portraited. All in all, to even call any of these fellas OVERRATED, it's quite a crime, neither of them are and at the end of the day, there isn't just ONE fella that can be called the best ever, all of these fellas and bunch of others were among the best in their respective periods. Later everyone will preffer more a certain style, some will have less or more titles and we will see atributes in some that we don't see in others, maybe without being entirely right, just our view and prefferences.
Messi in 11/12 CL QF & SF:-0 non penalty goals in 4 games-27 shots-90 dispossessionspic.twitter.com/RV6QiKIPHy https://t.co/EhUELJoRxM— Iniestactics (@Iniestactics) November 14, 2024 Add this guy to the list. Between his 30 shots at wc2010, 20 at copa without a goal and then this... horrible period at his peak
Stats with the National Team GP: Games played GF: Goals for, the team scored N-O: Non-Opta Assists PK: Penalties FK: Free kicks Hdr: Headers
Lionel Messi 2010 to 2013 250 Games 255 Goals 92 Assists (Opta) 24 Assists (Non-Opta) 48 Pre-Assists Goals p90: 1.094 Assists+p90: 0.704 Team Contribution: 68.80% Lionel Messi 2018 to 2020 160 Games (13354 min) 128 Goals 63 Assists (Opta) 17 Assists (Non-Opta) 31 Pre-Assists Goals p90: 0.863 Assists+p90: 0.748 Team Contribution: 70.92%
Butthurt is extreme. This guy think Ronaldo is anywhere near messi. Also think Messi is Overrated. Ridiculous
Messi in 11/12 CL QF & SF:-0 non penalty goals in 4 games-27 shots-90 dispossessionspic.twitter.com/RV6QiKIPHy https://t.co/EhUELJoRxM— Iniestactics (@Iniestactics) November 14, 2024
....and at the same time Diego wasn't an striker, also played many times in a free role or as a winger and MOST of the times (like his whole carreer) coming from deep...even in his more forward oriented stages, he always had the "soul" and even generosity of an enganche. I guess that Trachta was just showing a curious stat, nothing more, nothing less and one that I trully don't know how much true is in it. PD: BTW Diego didn't played that much more in terms of games, so the "first 575" ends being a bit tongue in cheek
still the enganche will always score more goals than the classic\pure winger. just compare the numbers of garrincha and best with the likes of zico and platini for example
Well Cris wasn't a classic pure winger when young, in terms of actually playing constantly for the striker in turn, he had to be handle in such aspect by Ferguson because of his tendency of playing for himself, with an extra dribble or a silly attempt to score. Those 575 from Diego includes a vast number of games with him playing as a pure playmaker for teams that needed him to cook almost everything, because those 575 are almost every game he played. He played many of those matches coming from very deep and with more clear tendency as a provider than the ones you've mentioned. Also Zico, Platini, Messi are anomalies and their scoring ratio it's one of the reasons why they were/are geniuses and held in such high regard, more classic playmakers do not tend to score as much. Plus all of them, included Diego, also played in forward positions during games, or even periods, in fact Diego as a support striker had a tendency to play in flanks in Argentinos Jrs, delivering as a winger in terms of crosses, scoring as a second striker and playmaking as wild card enganche...that was his more prolific period, pre injury. That electric healthy Diego was a menace from any role. BTW it's not easier, playing that enganche/playmaker position in terms of scoring and with the kind of attention rival's tend to give to them, it's actually harder, they just were extraordinary. There are quite a number of wingers with a great goal output like Robben, Figo, etc with similar or better numbers than fantastic players like Bochini, Zidane, Xavi, that are even more playmakers in a pure sense than even Zico, Leo or Michel. So nope, it's not just a question of role Like I've said, there was no place for "lols", it was a curious stat and neither Cris in a historical view, is precisly the winger/forward/striker mere player no matter role, with the greatest ratio in terms of games, shots, etc...it's him keeping those extraordinary numbers year after year what makes him an off the charts goalscorer, not that he was a better finisher than Bicain, Puskas, Pele, Muller, and so on
In fact, yes, he were a pure winger early at his career. Until Van Nistelrooy got out of ManUtd and Ferguson started to build the team around Ronaldo. On the other hand Maradona had the most prolific period of his whole career early at argentinos juniors and boca juniors being top scorer on the very first season on Argentinos juniors first team. It's just clear that Maradona were more goal oriented than Ronaldo in the early period of their careers. And many of those games were in the Argentine league (6 seasons) while Cristiano played only 1 season at Portugal and then came to the best league in the world. Zico and Messi are anomalies and so are Best and Garrincha at their respective positions. You said classic playmakers don't tend to score a lot but classic wingers scores even less It's statistically wrong. A player who plays at the #14 zone will score or assist more on average than a player who plays deep and wide (i.e. pure winger). Robben and Ribery weren't pure Wingers. On the contrary they were inverted/modern wingers. Playing in the opposite half of their dominant foots precisely to cut inside and finish instead of providing width and deliver crosses to the box. Maradona never played the role of Xavi. Mainly at his first 6 seasons. My "lol" were because 575 is a very specific number. It seems that the guy who chose this number purposely selected a very specific cut-off where Maradona had a comparable number to Ronaldo in goalscoring. Which is dishonest on his part cause as I've said, Ronaldo played basically half of that period as a pure Winger in a harder League while Maradona were the focal point of Argentinos juniors not counting that were the argentinian league Ronaldo is the better finisher of those players imo because he can finish with both legs, heads and from any angle or distance on the pitch in dead or live balls. None of the players you mentioned had that combination of skills excelling in all of them
.... .... .. .. .. .. .. yes .... at Football Manager all the editions Second Support Striker Enganche ( atk role ) Tre-Quartista (atk role ) Shadow Striker ( atk role ) Attacking Midfielder ( atk or support role ) Attacking Playmaker ( atk role ) Number One Zagallo's Tactics ( atk role ) Complete Forward are All considered Attacker roles Why??? For the poetic and artistic freedom to create plays..and create solutions in the final third as soon as possible at the same time .. Being automatically.. freedom from several defensive functions, always welcome and necessary for any high-level professional team in the world ..in Top Level . Classic midfielder roles are considered the Registas and Mezzalas ..or Right Winger playmaker..as Arce at Palmeiras... Gullit at Feyenoord.. as Beckham.. at Manchester United.. as C. Ronaldo 2004/05 at Manchester United.. Garrincha George Best ... I see..that the highly blind fans..of Maradona and Ronaldinho they go crazy.. to transform them in classic and root midfielders.. to justify the low number of career goals in general... But in fact they were not midfielders.. Michel Platini actually played really from the classic Regista. has one friendly match between .. Argentina vs Brazil in 1999 ..show Of Fernando Redondo ... Rivaldo played the enganche or Number One .. Ronaldo Nazario ..Complete Forward .... Ronaldinho Complete Forward ... in 2002 Ronaldinho Gaucho played the enganche ...or Number One Ronaldo Nazario ..Complete Forward .... Rivaldo Complete Forward ... at Barcelona .. Ronaldinho Gaucho with the ball played Inside Forward .. or Inside Invert Winger without the Ball or Off the Ball .. played as Center-Forward one player that was Terrible or Horrible in defensive whole Job ... are roles of Attackers also .