But If Ronaldo Nazario played In the champions league “in his peak” he would’ve done this he would’ve done “Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…………” Ronaldo Nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1995/96 UEFA cup by Jurgen klinsmann https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995–96_UEFA_Cup Ronaldo Nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1996/97 UEFA Cup winners Cup by Robbie fowler https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996–97_UEFA_Cup_Winners'_Cup Ronaldo nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1996/97 Copa del Rey by Diego Kilmowicz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996–97_Copa_del_Rey Ronaldo Nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1998 World Cup by David Suker https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_FIFA_World_Cup Ronaldo Nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1997/98 Serie A by Olivier Bierhoff https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997–98_Serie_A Ronaldo nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1997/98 UEFA Cup by Stéphane Guivarc'h https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997–98_UEFA_Cup Ronaldo Nazario in his peak was outscored in the 1997/98 Coppa Italia by Alen Boksic https://www.worldfootball.net/goalgetter/ita-coppa-italia-1997-1998/ Ronaldo nazario in his peak was literally one million miles away from the top scorer of the 1998/99 UCL Andriy Shevchenco Ronaldo nazarios paltry 1 goal in the 98/99 UCL was matched or bettered by the following inter Milan players Roberto baggio(3) Nicola ventola (2) Youri Djorkaeff(1) Diego simeone(1) Javier zanetti(1) Ivan zamorano(1) Ronaldo nazario(1) https://www.worldfootball.net/goalgetter/champions-league-1998-1999/ That is your phenomenon
I noticed this from the same guy who did the 1996/97 breakdown now (1997/98) - he seems less generous than Whimsy was on key passes (although that's a bit confusing since they should have a set definition of pass before a shot I guess really), but calculates (for all competitions) a slightly higher number of BCC per 90 mins than Whimsy (who was looking at Serie A only). We already saw he had a slightly lower number of dribbles per game than Whimsy did for league games, and the rate stays similar here. 3.1 fouls won per game.... Ronaldo on X: "Ronaldo Nazário stats for Inter Milan 97/98 47 games (4142 minutes) ⚽️ 34 goals (0.74) 4 assists (0.09) 196 shots / 77 on target (1.66) ♂️ 176 successful dribbles (3.81) 43 key passes (0.92) 34 BCC (0.74) ❌ 36 BCM (0.81) 143 fouls won (3.1) 44 game sample https://t.co/QGE7ROK7KK" / X So with his data comparing R9 1996/97 and 1997/98: Goals per 90 - 1996/97 (0.99 to 0.74) Assists per 90 - 1996/97 (0.23 to 0.09) Shots on target ratio - 1996/97 (57% to 39%) Successful dribbles - 1996/97 (4.67 per 90 mins to 3.81 per 90 mins) Key passes - 1997/98 (0.92 per 90 mins to 0.89 per 90 mins) Big chances created - 1997/98 (0.74 per 90 mins to 0.19 per 90 mins) Big chances missed (negative stat) - 1997/98 (0.81 per 90 mins to 0.32 per 90 mins) Fouls received per 90 - 1997/98 (3.1 to 2.68)
I don't know if the numbers are correct, but they seem to be consistent with the Ronaldo Nazario we've seen play. Strengths: 34 goals in 47 games, 3.81 successful dribbles. Weaknesses: assists and key passes. Fouls per game doesn't seem like much of a statistic to me. Some players are more resilient to tackles and if this is incorporated into their strengths, they will be able to make progressive plays more consistently.
I just don't blindly believe what a twitter user posted. For me anything that is not from opta or statsbomb is pseudo data. I agree that a limited sample size is flawed. And I myself said in my post that the opta data "seems to suggest this" not as something definitive. Come on mate. He were delivering this in a second division champions league lol. And the Champions League was already more inclusive in 97/98 since not only the champions qualified but also the runners-up of the leagues played a playoff (parma and new castle for example this season).
Yes, the pdg had said that the fouls suffered prevented R9 from having a high number of successful dribbles. So I pointed out that Cristiano suffered even more fouls but that didn't stop him from having an even greater number of dribbles.
R9 1998 WC campaign is probably the most overrated WC campaign ever its up there with Messi 2014, Maradona 1990, Hazard 2018 6 vs Scotland 7.5 vs Morocco 6.5 vs Norway 7.5 vs Chile(stat padding performance, mid in the first half & showed up when the game was already over) 7.5 vs Denmark(2 assists but a very bad performance outside of that) 8 vs Netherlands 5 vs France this is a decent campaign but nothing special Thuram, Zidane, Suker and even Rivaldo were better
I don’t Messi 2014 is overrated at all It was a great performance(top 3 of that 2014 edition) Ronaldo Nazario 1998 was definitely inferior to this Definitely to this maybe to this and maybe to this Robert miles music fits these zidane videos like a glove(the impressive videos and the not so impressive ones) WC 1998 is 50% of R9s legend With 1 league title and 0 champions leagues in his career playing for Madrid,Barcelona,Inter and Milan There’s not much to see here Brazil won 1 World Cup(1994)and 2 Copa America trophies(2004 and 2007)during R9s playing career with him either on the bench for all the minutes or not included in the squad at all whatsoever https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ronaldo/nationalmannschaft/spieler/3140 Brazil won 1 World Cup(2002) and 2 Copa America trophies(1997 & 1999) with R9 playing most (if not all) the available minutes He never improved his club teams nor his International team. The default was winning with or without him(the exact same number of major trophies)
And that's with an anti-Ronaldo pro-Messi bias when it comes to the interpretation of fouls. Note - I am not referring to conspiracies. But Ronaldo had a rep of a diver (unfairly imo) and combined with his size, would often be waved away after legit fouls. On the other hand, Messi esp in the early days of Barca dominance would get a foul for any touch
Most teams would win with and without their star player based on the analysis above. He was untouchable in 2002
Well, Ronaldo Nazario was the G+A leader in two World Cups (1998 and 2002) and scored two goals in one final. He's in a select group of players who were G+A leaders in two World Cups (Ronaldo and Muller) and who scored in the final. We disagree that if you put anyone in place it would be the same.
A time when Brazil scared any team. The two Copa Américas after 2002 were basically won with Brazil's reserve team, that generation was so talented. It's a shame to look at the team today and see that our best players are merely comparable to the 2007 champion team with Adriano Imperador, Alex and the others.
in Brazil ;;;... yes i agree with you dear mate ! Romário ... has 27 TopGoalScorers Awards Ronaldo Nazario has 6 or 7 TopGoalScorers Awards only ! for me even ....Romário was better than Ronaldo Nazario
Let's suppose he gets injured right before the World Cup. For me it's obvious that Felipão would bring Romário who was still at his peak despite playing in Brazil and Romário would have a World Cup maybe even better than R9. Tbf Rivaldo were the best player of Brazil in 2002, not Ronaldo despite leading in G/A
We can't predict it. You have the image of Romário in 94. Romário in 2002 was almost forty years old, playing in a weaker league (Brazilian league). Ronaldo Nazario was the leader in G+A in two World Cups, without goals for penalty or assist from a set piece. If it's so easy, why hasn't anyone else done it?
Untouchable R9 or Haaland? 4 passes completed against Belgium 2002 in the whole 90 minutes from untouchable R9
Come on man, no matter if Brazilian league were weaker (weren't that weak as it is today on early 00s), no one were scoring 42 goals in South America in 2002 Edit: I didn't say it was easy. It's an impressive achievement. But as I said, Rivaldo was Brazil's best player in 2002, not Ronaldo
The PDG is losing respect for you when he sees this. Do you think the numbers of fouls the Twitter guys recorded for R9 are lies or mis-counted? Because if you don't dispute those then your statement is a lie or a mistake I think, and that is really not good behaviour. If you only go by the limited World Cup and post-peak CL data to make your statement above that Carlito repped then do you not just think it is an empty and misleading statement? Of course I can't be sure they are not lying about fouls received but I struggle to see it as likely. I don't know what is going on here to be honest? You might think they over-recorded his dribbles compared to what Opta might do (and BCC), I understand, but you don't have the accurate data available with which to make your assertions about CR7 dribbing more, being fouled more etc. You also refer to data for CR7 that is not typical for him overall, and is from small sample sizes (though I've pointed out myself that he did have higher fouled/dribbles numbers in the mid 00s in league football, compared to his later years).
Even more fouls than how many? Even more dribbles than how many? You're not referring to 96/97 and 97/98 (that I was alluding to), but only to WC98, 02 and CL 03/04 I think aren't you? So it's a strawman argument and moot point (even if you can doubt the dribbles numbers posted on Twitter) - that's what I'm trying to say. I don't understand what you are doing, honestly. It's hard not to be annoyed, but I'll just apologise for that now and leave it, it's not doing me any good being involved in this kind of misleading discussion and getting ignored to be honest (in order to 'big up' CR7 I suppose).
Well, I don't think anyone in the poll is overrated. My vote would go to Xavi or Lewa. Overrated not in the sense of being bad, but having players at the level, less awarded. Ronaldo Nazario are two different players. The first Ronaldo Nazario of Barcelona and Inter was known for his explosive runs. He was even beginning to learn how to take free-kicks. All his free-kick goals came at Inter. Of course, I take these stats presented by PDG with caution. But I believe they are consistent with the player I saw: Almost a goal a game and +3 dribbles. It's possible that they're true. Rare player. The second Ronaldo, after his injury, is a player with little mobility, but a great scorer. Zidane has his critics for not scoring many goals. He was a pure playmaker. More than 3 key passes, 90 passes, defensive contribution, +2 dribbles. I haven't seen many better playmakers. CR7 is criticized when compared to Messi. Messi has better qualities as a playmaker. But CR7 was also a world-class dribbler and a good playmaker in his prime. Ronaldinho is criticized for having a short peak. Fair enough. But he did well at Milan too. Serie A's all-time assist leader. Along with Roberto Mancini in 1990, the highest number of assists recorded on transfermarket. Not on the same level as Barcelona, of course. But he had his moments. If he always played like he did at Barcelona, he'd be compared to Maradona and others. Combining magic, volume (assist leader) and titles (two UCL) is unusual. They were four rare players
This is outrageous 80% accuracy on 5 passes Those tapins were saving his fat ass and inflating the ratings This is a 36 year old Cristiano Ronaldo with 0 goals vs a vastly superior Belgium side
I don't want to leave it on a bad note, so I'll just say no hard feeling @Isaías Silva Serafim (I don't believe you are a bad guy, or generally a liar). I hope you understand what I'm saying though. You just seem intent on 'proving' something you don't have numbers for, by using limited data and extrapolating, and ignoring suggestions that Ronaldo Nazario's dribbles and fouls suffered numbers were indeed higher in 96/97 an 97/98 club football (and I do struggle to see why they'd lie about or significantly miscount the fouls suffered to be honest like I said!).
Why people are talking about R9's World Cups and prime when it was already discussed in the past and I showed the truth for all people of the world to see it: (https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/c...do-luis-is-modern-football-overrated.2110951/) and when Cristiano Ronaldo's legacy in the World Cup is thinner than all other T30 OAT players perhaps? Or even his Euro's were very short of being T10 OAT material? The elephant is in the house and Cristiano Ronaldo, while being a injury-free freak, is ultimately more a byproduct of the superteams era (with disparity in global and financial power) than his alleged super class ability.
Now, balance the dribbles completed and the fouls received per number of touches and the actual difference is large. R9 probably touched the ball 40 times per match on average, CR7 pre-Ancelotti was a ~65 touches per match player, which makes sense since his clubs were more dominant in general and as a side player he had different jobs to execute. Cristiano Ronaldo was never good receiving the ball in central areas of the pitch, it everyone knows, since his lateral agility was mediocre, his first touch under pressure at best inconsistent, his turn with the ball after 06/07 season at best limited and he lacked the optimum ball control most often than not to slalom there. He was good as a ball mover on the side (pace more stamina) and at evading the opponents while running at already very good speed, in movement. The problem with Cristiano Ronaldo's fans sometimes is that these mythical Cristiano Ronaldo was never in fully expression in reality, Cristiano Ronaldo never reunited his fresh legs and world class dribbling ability from his 2003-2006/7 period, his decision making of after 2014, his long shoots of 2011/2012 and his clutchness of 2017 in one unique version, that player never existed; When he was good on the ball, he was frequently wasteful; when he was efficient, he was already limited on the ball.
@PDG1978 At no time did I offend you. My discussions are always respectful and they always remain in the realm of ideas. I completely ignore any source other than opta, statsbomb or transfermarket. Especially if it comes from a random twitter account. I can copy the "data" from whimsy myself and change the stats and post it to my twitter. And his will not be worth more than mine. We are not at square one because we have reliable data from R9 for 3 World Cups and some Champions Leagues. But I agree that perhaps this is not representative of his peak at the club, but I think it is very likely that it is.Why would he make 4 dribbles per game at Barça/Inter where he had a worse team than in Brazil and in Brazil in 98 he would only make 1.9 dribbles per game when in both cases he was the focal point of the offensive plays? It just doesn't makes sense. If you look at other dribblers like Hazard 2018, Cristiano 2006, Messi 2010, Mbappé 2022, they all managed to replicate their club dribbling numbers in the world cup
In literally the first game he started in his professional career Tropeiro is the fake news overlord Self confessed Portuguese hater aswell That he wasn’t his 2004,2007,2012,2014 and 2017 version in one single player is irrelevant. Nobody claimed that If he was that we’d be comparing him to Pele