You can find and overview of this on Fbref as well for example - the numbers look legit/correct. Bergkamp is on 0.72, which is still quite high given his role (back then fouls per game was really a lot higher). It's the highest of his era; 1995 - 2005. If KDB plays on until the age of 37 it is not unthinkable his average will drop somewhat. In the main I think the indexes are useful (despite the caveats of course like that you can't fully individualize) and certainly not more flawed as what your kickers, world soccer, voetbal international and gazzettas come up with (I do think Gullit was overrated a bit, yes, compared to other Benelux players, just because of his 'charisma' and personality - not overrated in the 1993 world player of the year election surely!). For example: Squawka op X: 'The best centre-backs in the Premier League in 2023/24 based on Squawka Score (1,710+ mins): ◉ 72% - Virgil van Dijk ◎ 68% - Cristian Romero ◎ 67% - Jan Paul van Hecke ◎ 61% - Micky van de Ven ◎ 61% - Rúben Dias ◎ 57% - Ezri Konsa ◎ 57% - Nathan Aké 4/7 are Dutch. ' / X E4 op X: 'Virgil Van Dijk vs Poland - Euros 24 https://t.co/bPbyARqkp6' / X WhoScored.com op X: 'Virgil van Dijk was the highest rated centre-back in Europe's top five leagues last season (7.15). https://t.co/emQITs6wgo' / X 'I could make a long list' - Ibrahima Konate's learning from Virgil van Dijk - Liverpool FC Who of the last 40 years was really better at the age of 32?
Ffs how did i forgot to include gento? Probably the most overrated player of all top 100-150 all timer but very overrated
Overrated system player who doesn't belong in the all time top 100 imo. Very bad international country resume, always 4th/5th rated player of his own teams Just a good player nothing more
A quick search on the internet revealed that most magazines place him between 27th and 30th of the 20th century. I don't think it's completely absurd to put him in that position since football is subjective and there could be 100 different players in 30th place depending on which criteria are most important in the point of view of each individual. If you think that he isn't top 100 then I think you are underrating him
I wouldn't put Gento so high on the list. Yes, he won many champions leagues with Real Madrid (Carvajal too), but the stars were Puskas and Di Stefano. Today the Champions League is the world's top tournament, but in the 1960s, the Libertadores was just as strong. Which reduces the impact of a supporting player's record And he wasn't there when Spain won Euro 64. Gento was a good player. His assist in the 1962 World Cup against Mexico is sublime. A 100 metre run. 39:55 But among the best of all time seems like an exaggeration for a player who wasn't a superstar in his day.
Gento won the European cup with Real Madrid after Alfredo Di stefano was long gone and Ferenc Puskás was by then a bit part player(1965/66) Gento made 9 appearances in the 1965/66 EC and the 39 year old ferenc Puskás made only 3
The greatest goalscorer of the 1960s Copa libertadores (and of all time ) has 4 goal for his country His club team got smoked by Real Madrid in the 1960 intercontinental cup aswell https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Intercontinental_Cup
Yeah, I wouldn't put Spencer in either. Best of all time is a lot of people. Goalkeeper, full-back, midfielder, striker...a lot of mvps, ballon d'or, golden foot etc
I feel being the 3rd-5th best player on 6 European Cup winning teams(let’s not trivialise this number)is at least worth being the outright best player on 1 EC/CL team(your guys like George best in 1967/68 and Ronaldinho in 2005/06) Neymar Jr was the support cast Arguable second best player for 1 CL trophy in 2014/15 Although sofascore doesn’t see it that way(they put Messi in first and Luis Suarez in second) And I believe he is in your top 50 ever
Puskas and Di Stefano, after a certain age, needed people as Gento and Del Sol to do the leg work. Missed always 1/3rd of the league season as well. Di Stefano after 1959 always played in 23 league games or less. Someone has to compensate (if you don't have that: see Cruijff for Barcelona, where even missing three league games was costly). Copa Libertadores, like the Intercontinental Cup, quickly descended into chaos. Santos andsoforth dropped out. Santos, and others, rather played friendlies instead of the Libertadores. If you look at Gento his longevity, and that at one point he was arguably a top two player of his club, and also consider the wingers aren't a stacked position, it is not so strange he is put in a top 100. Voetbal International in 2017 also put Giggs in, at position 91. Gento at #33. Personally I am leaning to attach a higher value to Gento as Maldini, seriously (who was placed #42 by VI). But Real Madrid at the time had also the best facilities and such, so it is hard to say how Gento would do in a different environment and whether he is then the main star. If I am not wrong he wasn't necessarily the best player of his teams before Real Madrid (Racing Santander), where he was in and out of the A-team aged 20. If you see a team is still very successful and strong with key players out or ageing (for large parts of the season), the logical conclusion is the support cast is also great. If you compare it with the great Milan team of the late 1980s/1990s, then you'll see Milan sometimes really felt it when players weren't there (like Gullit in 1988-89, compared with not playing), and could compensate better for others. The great Real Madrid however, seemed to have been pretty immune, to a greater extent as Milan imho (just by 'facts'). The logical conclusion is then, again, the support cast can be placed on a high plateau.
Before the European Cup became turned into group stages (that was 1991-92, the last before the rebranding), Gento was also the outfield player with the most UEFA games. Close behind was Cruijff.
Re: friendlies. When Sevilla signed Maradona, they did that with Berlusconi his money. Berlusconi received the broadcasting rights, for the friendlies too. Like the friendly against Bayern Munich.
That's something I wouldn't do... Modric higher peak and consistency for national team, was also for a time the 2nd best player at Real Madrid. Behind Cristiano Ronaldo. When Paco Gento was 2nd, 3rd or 4th of his team, there was no one near Ronaldo's level. To answer the subject of the thread though: I'd say Ronaldinho is the most overrated. He played like the Ronaldinho many people remember in the second half of 2003-04 and 2005-06. That is basically it. In terms of playing like the (single) best player in the world. I'm not saying he wasn't an elite player in 2004-05, but his end-product was lacking quite a bit there. It was half of what it was in 2005-06, and also that was still not like Thierry Henry (for which Ronaldinho has good 'excuses' of course). Zidane is overrated when he is put top five of all-time and when people (consistently) place Ronaldo Nazario behind.
Well, I don't think Modrić ever was 2nd best player at Real Madrid playing with Ronaldo. It were sometimes Sergio Ramos, some times Marcelo, even Isco and James had their moments but I've never seen Modrić as this. In 2018 when he won all available awards I think he weren't better than even Kroos for Real Madrid
2013/14 Second best was either him or Di Maria IMO Gareth bale third Maybe gentos importance to Real Madrids European cup titles can be compared to Karim benzema before 2021/22 That seems about right but even then Benzema is almost outside the top 10 in 2015/16 A GK ahead here aswell(Navas)
This is a pretty good list. Quite close to mine, seriously. Main ones I see different is: Ronaldo Nazario is commonly placed lower as Zidane. That is not right for me. In my view Ronaldo and Van Basten are the two best strikers ever (ignoring Puskas here). Ronaldo his career at the top was over around 28, yes, but he also started way earlier than Zidane. It is imho seriously wrong and also not fair when Zidane gets bumped ahead, consistently, and by implication also in a higher tier. The so called knowledgeable historians that place Ronaldo below Muller and then Van Basten something like 7th (below Romario even) have a nice place in my blackbook. Del Piero and Hazard I would see different too. I know it is blasphemy but for a club like Juventus he was a way better fit than Baggio (the penalty King who is also very overrated imho; an ageing and wacky knees Gullit blew him apart - Baggio his ratings as Brescia player are really suspicious in many ways) Hazard actually was really good for Real Madrid until he was injured. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4582090/2023/06/05/eden-hazard-real-madrid/ (Ignore the author, it is a decent piece) Scholes has become quite over the top with the years. Outlets like The Athletic and the official Premier League channels are now using labels as GOAT. That has consequences in the real world. "Scholes proving he is the GOAT for 4 minutes" That is now the company line and policy. I mean, I like our own players like Philip Cocu or Axel Witsel but someone who never received a single Ballon d'Or vote - while playing fora big club and media on your side - is GOAT? Another symptom of what England has become over the last 20 years or so. People fall for that trick. In case of England there is not a double handicap but a second chance. The second opportunity to use all your muscle and guile. Others pay the price for this piece of wrestling. Overall, your list is quite close to mine, with many names the same.
I agree with you dear mate PuckVanHeel hahahaha on Alessandro Del Piero but about on Paul Scholes or Eden Hazard ... i totally disagree from you !
30 October 1963 Northern Ireland 0–1 Spain Report Gento 66' Windsor Park, Belfast Attendance: 45,809 Referee: Andries van Leeuwen (Netherlands) Spain won 2–1 on aggregate and advanced to the quarter-finals.