Who is the most overrated all time great?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Neron Nuñez, Jul 7, 2024.

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Who are the most overrated all time greats?

  1. R9

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  2. Zidane

    9 vote(s)
    19.1%
  3. Cristiano Ronaldo

    19 vote(s)
    40.4%
  4. Ronaldinho

    9 vote(s)
    19.1%
  1. Neron Nuñez

    Neron Nuñez New Member

    Monterrey
    Mexico
    Dec 30, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    For me it’s Cristiano Ronaldo and I will try to explain why later. I would like to know what your answers will be and give me several reasons why.
     
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  2. genden7

    genden7 Member

    Oct 5, 2023
    CR7 by far...

    zero playmaking, not even a top-50 dribbler, not even a top-5 goalscorer (the only area where he shines).. without social media, he will be ranked behind Gerd Muller the great who is a way better goalscorer than CR7 is especially at the NT level..
     
    William Whitehill repped this.
  3. Gregoire

    Gregoire Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    CR7

    gap

    Maradona
    Zidane

    gap

    everybody else
     
  4. Jaune Vaughn

    Jaune Vaughn Member

    Liverpool FC
    Turkey
    May 28, 2024
    With the huuuuuge gap its CR7, the way media shows us this man is crazy. Actually not that. THE WAY MEDIA SHOWS US CR7 IS COMPARABLE TO MESSI IS INCREDIBLE. I don't even think we need to argue for that, we should put CR7 out so we can really talk about this topic.
     
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  5. TerjeC

    TerjeC Member

    None
    Norway
    Nov 19, 2023
    Norway
    They are all four great players and not really overrated. But if I had to choose one it would have to be Ronaldinho. He had three great seasons (at Barcelona), and some good ones.
     
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  6. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Cr7 is underrated by you clowns
     
  7. Agility

    Agility Member

    Jan 17, 2019
    CR7. Because he is compared to Messi.
    Some think he is 2-5 all timers.
     
    Neron Nuñez repped this.
  8. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    This thread is a lost case. If you guys think C. Ronaldo isn't at least top 5 then you're underrating C. Ronaldo and overrating other players
     
  9. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    From those 4 players in the poll, CR7 is by far the greatest player. How is he the most overrated? For me it's just hate by messiphilles, Argentinians and culés
     
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  10. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Depends where they are rated then we can make the case.
    Cristiano Ronaldo his position should be around T4-10 imo, depends how you valuate him. R9 T8-T15, Zidane a bit lower perhaps, T10-T18. Ronaldinho T25-T50.
     
  11. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    I think he is firmly behind Cruyff, Messi and Pelé.
    Puskas, Di Stefano, Maradona, Eusebio, Platini, Beckenbauer (tho of different position), maybe some others these guys though we could argue. Taking into account both peak and longevity in the sum.
     
    Neron Nuñez repped this.
  12. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    He's better or as good as anyone on this list not named Pele / Maradona
     
  13. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Those names being listed on front of Ronaldo is unbridled nonsense. I cannot see the argument that can be laid out for any of those European players to be ahead.
    None of those guys won WCs.
    One of them won a Euro.
    And maybe two have a comparable UCL legacy
     
  14. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    its 2024 and there is still people like you who compares Ronaldo to Messi? lol
    I have Pele, Messi, Cruyff, Maradona and Di Stefano above Ronaldo but i have no problem if someone rates Ronaldo over Di Stefano, in the best scenario Ronaldo could be 3rd(unlikely tho) but Pele & Messi are locked top 2.
    So this is your criteria for rating players in football? do you realize football is not like tennis right?
     
  15. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yes, cause they are comparable in therms of greatness
     
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  16. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Why does that bother you so much?
    I do not see Messi as a class above - nor should anybody. There is absolutely no reason for it. They are the same caliber player.
     
  17. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    :laugh::ROFLMAO:
     
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  18. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Predicted age bracket 15 to 22. Hence, your immature attitude and lack of knowledge
     
  19. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    A CR7 fan being delusional and idiot, not surprised
     
  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    1# Ronaldinho Gaucho the most overrated player Of all times by so far away ...Player of HighLights at You tube ...


    2# David Beckham


    3# Frank Lampard

    4# Steven Gerrard

    5# Paul Scholes or Rio Ferdinand

    6# Juan Sebastien Veron

    7# Juan Roman Riquelme


    8# Clarence Seedorf


    9 # Kaka Ricardo


    10 # Michael Laudrup
     
  21. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Everybody on this forum knows I'm not a Cristiano fan in the slightest. But keep throwing insults you absolute disgrace
     
  22. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    On that note, the most overrated player of all time is easily Messi - his fans / sycophants have the idea that he is somehow the best player in every category possible and can do no wrong, has no downs in his career, etc. So I think he is a solid first in that respect.
    Other greats are not overrated - they are underrated - especially guys like Di Stefano.
     
    Ahmadi8 and Isaías Silva Serafim repped this.
  23. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    An Argentine saying that Messi is a tier above Cristiano. Not surprised. I'm genuinely curious as to why you don't find them even comparable.
     
  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #24 carlito86, Aug 9, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2024
    Let’s talk about how Cristiano looks next to the other players on this thread(what matters)
    No need to hide the hatred behind fake admiration of Eusebio(who he believes played out his entire career against peasants)



    IMG_4861.jpeg
    28 more ESM monthly selections than zinedine zidane
    29 more ESM monthly selections than Ronaldinho gaucho
    32 more ESM selections than Ronaldo Nazario

    Kevin de bruyne does not have 32 ESM monthly selections in his career and he is the best and most productive attacking midfielder of his generation (even since the year 2000)


    A view that I’m almost certain alot of people hold here(the ones who like cristiano and the ones who don’t)

    It is very easy to attribute this to longevity
    Everything great he has achieved is attributed to this.

    He is the top scorer in football history
    Well he played more games than anyone else

    he is the top scorer in CL history
    Well he played more games than anyone else

    he is the top scorer in Euro history
    Well he played more games than anyone else

    longevity monsters Lewandowski,Suarez and ibrahimovic played in the exact same era as Cristiano, benefitted from the same advances in sports science and spearheaded some of the biggest super teams of their age

    So Why are they in the exact same range as the aforementioned players(19-23 ESM monthly selections)

    and not the range of Cristiano(or nowhere near it)
    Does anyone want to have that conversation?
    I don’t think they do


    You can be overrated compared to Messi and you can also be a vastly vastly superior player to R9,Zidane and Ronaldinho.
    Both scenarios can be true at the very same time.


    Peak
    I Can be here all day talking about this but will suffice with this


    Peak(champions league)
    IMG_4865.jpeg
    IMG_4867.jpeg

    Peak(in the Elo best league in Europe)


    I can go back and forth with footage of his dribbling,goals,chance creation,ball carrying,the records,the quotes from legends in the game etc but that is truly a waste of time


    what interests me is not proving what is self evidently clear to see for anyone with a brain and an iota of common sense.

    what really interests me is debunking one of the biggest footballing myths to date


    The myth of R9
    Ronaldo Nazario is absolutely not a top 20 all timer
    In the best case scenario( that I struggle to see)he is a top 10 all time prodigy who faded out before his career defining knee injury(November 1999)
    Not after

    There is really no need to hypothesise or eulogise over what R9 would have become had he not succumbed to those knee surgeries.

    We saw it

    1998/99
    7 non penalty goals in 28 matches
    0.25 non penalty goals per game

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron...98&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ron.../liga/0/wettbewerb//pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1
    You can blame this on lack of discipline,missing training or Serie A defences finding him out in his second season

    Whatever excuses you want to pick none of them can apply to Cristiano at any stage of his prime

    the hype doesn’t match the facts and reality on the ground
    The 20 year old R9 who devastated relegated compostela and mid table Valencia is not like the 20 year old who destroyed perennial European champions Real Madrid in a CL final

    Born in 1942 and played this in 1962


    For blind people yes maybe it is the same

    R9 scored 1 goal in 5 league/CL games vs juventus,Manchester United and Real Madrid during 1996-1999
    These were the real heavyweight teams during that time
    Again blind folks might think this is a mind blowing statistic but others I suspect will see it differently.

    For those fans here who sincerely believe that the friendly games of Pele are the same as the competitive games of today then perhaps they should look at how many goals a 19 year old Pele scored in 1 single game vs one of the greatest Real Madrid teams of all time in 1959.

    then you will see who is the real prodigy and worthy of that title and who is the fake.

    Now time to debunk a few myths

    1.)Ronaldo nazario dribbled
    past paolo maldini

    Possibly the single most repeated piece of propaganda in these debates
    It goes along the lines of

    “just look at the quality of defenders R9 faced….”

    then a whole bunch of names headlined by Paolo maldini.



    The Maldini who R9 faced was the Maldini who played for a Milan which finished 10th place in Serie A 1997/98
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997–98_Serie_A

    Maldini was the 104th highest rated player in Serie A 1997/98 according to Dbs calcio
    IMG_4870.jpeg

    they were conceding goals by the tonne and I can reassure you with absolute certainty that R9 wasn’t by a long shot the only attacker who was dribbling past maldini in 1997/98 or forcing him to commit defensive errors.


    1997/98 was maybe Milan’s worst season in the entire 1990s decade

    If you want to look for a player who absolutely wrecked maldini in his peak than look at jay jay okocha In 1993/94(World Cup)

    IMG_4872.jpeg

    Maldini was then in his peak(ranked 10th in Serie A 1993/94 and finished 3rd in the ballon dor)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Ballon_d'Or
    https://www.dbscalcio.it/sn-risultatiMediaVoto.php

    If those scenes existed for R9(anywhere in his overrated catalogue)his fans would claim he is the greatest sportsman in history
    They really would


    2.)R9 Dribbled past vierchwood

    Would probably be the best defender referenced after the usual suspects (Maldini,Thuram,Nesta and dessaily)
    More on them later

    vierchwood was born in 1959
    This scene was from 1998(he was 39 years old)


    Vierchwood was born before Diego Maradona(born in 1960) and he is 4 years younger than Michel platini(born in 1955)

    in 1998 he was a relic

    I’m not sure how much importance one should attach to scenes like this if any

    3.)Dribbled past Alessandro Nesta

    Nesta was 21 years old in 1997/98

    the same age as R9 but it doesn’t necessitate that they peaked at the exact same age.
    And typically for attackers they reach maturity at earlier age than their defensive counter parts

    ESM sees it that way too
    that the Nesta who R9 faced in 1998 was not the same Nesta of a few years later
    IMG_4878.jpeg

    Dribbled past Thuram and Desaily

    Again there is the mythology tied in with reality

    on one hand there is the overflowing praise and admiration of his skills and threat


    And then there is the reality of how those two actually coped with him on the ground

    R9 did cope very well with those two players….
    In a single game of absolutely no importance at all whatsoever

    I’ll go out on a limb here when I say that R9 wasn’t successful against Lilian Thuram in one single instance except in this dress rehearsal(friendly)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Tournoi_de_France
    How much importance do we attach to this
    I’d say none



    In the league Lilian Thuram at Parma neutralised R9 at inter more often than not

    R9 scored 1 open play goal in 4 games vs Parma when he was a inter Milan player.

    Let’s not forget the World Cup
    The World Cup being the only grand stage R9 shone brightly in (to what degree is extremely debatable)

    Thuram made him look like a Semi professional
    You can refer to Sofascore for this
    IMG_4881.jpeg


    IMG_4880.jpeg



    We have the overflowing praise on one hand and then we have the reality of what happened on the ground

    Vidic and Ferdinand praising Messi based on lived experiences(CL SF 2008,CL final 2009 or CL final 2011) is not the same as Lilian Thuram praising R9 based on what he witnessed him do to other defenders.
    Other defenders who were nowhere near as good as he was to begin with

    4.)Dribbled with the ball glued to his foot vs neuchatel xamax

    He looks like Messi

    First thing first
    scenes like this are extremely rare and infrequent in the dribbling catalogue of R9(where he is beating multiple players with pure close control)

    Scenes like this on the other hand are the norm for Lionel Messi.
    It could make his 1+hour dribbling highlight reel and it couldn’t

    the catalogue is so deep that If it’s not included the picture we have of Messi will not change at all whatsoever.

    Regarding this dribbling scene
    They never mention the part that this was in the groupstage of the UEFA Cup
    You also never hear the part that the team he dribbled past were relegated from the Swiss division

    Not Europe’s top 5 leagues,not the Eredivisie or the Portuguese league.
    But relegated from the Swiss league


    they also don’t show you this
    The full clip
    IMG_4876.gif



    the part of the clip were he is immediately dispossessed and the dribble leads absolutely nowhere
    Not a shot on or off target
    Not a pass successful or unsuccessful
    Not a freekick won or penalty
    Nada/nothing except to be highly edited and put in the first 15 seconds of R9s greatest dribbling highlights

    This clip is representative of 95% of his dribbling runs that never ended up with goals


    I know all those iconic scenes
    The context too
    The completely unstoppable narrative is a lie
    Maybe the biggest lie



    5.)Carlito knows nothing talking about Manchester United LOL
    R9 scored a hattrick against Manchester United in 1 CL KO match
    Just imagine what he could’ve done in his actual peak



    I don’t like imagining or entertaining hypothetical scenarios
    I only like facts

    the champions league SF is more important than the Champions League QF
    logic dictates this

    so let’s look at this differently
    Ronaldo nazario is a Brazilian
    Lucas moura is also a Brazilian

    one hattrick from open play scored in a CL SF by a Brazilian playing for Tottenham
    isn’t inferior to one hattrick from open play scored in a CL QF by a Brazilian playing for Real Madrid

    one game is still only one game
    Whether your name is Ronaldo nazario or your name is Lucas moura
    The former doesn’t get extra bonus points for being a mythologised player




    Some final points to address
    R9 does not have more world class seasons than Ronaldinho gaucho in major European leagues


    Ronaldinho was world class his first 4 seasons at Barcelona (not 3) and his first at Milan

    Ronaldo Nazario was world class his first season at Barcelona,his first at inter and his first two at Real Madrid.

    if you want to give him his first season at PSV (where he was inferior to Luc nillis)than that Is 5 world class seasons

    5 world class seasons is 5 world class seasons
    The exact same number of world class season as Ronaldinho gaucho


    I also don’t believe for one second either that R9 was greater in world cups than Ronaldinho was in the champions league.
    And Ronaldinho was not worse in world cups than Ronaldo nazario was in the champions league.
     
  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    i agree with you dear mate... on Ronaldo Nazario ;;; somehow


    i see this like you abit for sure ...




    But be carefully

    with SofaScore ratings ... has so many many grave errors there ... !
     

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