Who failed to bring Riquelme to MLS?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by AmericanKaka, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. drahnier

    drahnier Member

    Aug 18, 2007
    Sweden
    My mom pulls a lot of Mexicans.
     
  2. RichardUK

    RichardUK Member

    Dec 14, 2006
    Nottingham, UK
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    She wishes.
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think so. I think the new transfer rules mean he can only move countries once every 12 months. But I could be wrong.

    :D
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How? If the average fanny in the seats is worth $25, that would mean JRR bringing in an extra 200,000 fans for DC (or whatever team), which clearly ain't going to happen.
     
  5. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    I disagree. To get a player of Riquelme's stature at a price that is about a quarter of what he would be worth otherwise due to unique circumstances is not something that we can count on occuring again EVER, particularly relative to the juncture in the evolution of MLS. JRR is not just a "quality player," he is the most gifted Argentine playmaker since Maradona, and has orchestrated some of the most beautiful soccer played in the last five years, at the highest level. He is a prickly personality, but that's why the bargain opportunity has arisen. The risk is not negligible, but the potential rewards are stratospheric.
     
  6. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    I don't want to unfairly criticize you, so I just want to be clear: are you really saying that you believe attendance in stadia for regular MLS games is the primary value driver of a "super-DP" like Beckham or Riquelme? Before you answer, I recommend you review some of the very intelligent posts made by some folks who grasp the economics well on the early Beckham threads.
     
  7. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    He won't bring that many people, but he would increase ratings on TV especially Spanish TV. He'll sell a bunch of jerseys, and would be an icon in the DC Latin community which would bring more sponsorship $s to the club ...etc. Don't forget that the DC Latin community is primarily Central and South American. Central Americans hate Mexico, and usually respond to well to Argentinian and Brazilian stars.

    So maybe $ 5 mill is a bit steep, but $ 3 - 4 mill I think is worth it for the club. But you know, I'm not trying to tell DC FO how to do their jobs. They put together a nice team for this year, so can't complain.
     
  8. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    3 Things... Riquelme is still with Villareal

    Riquelme would have costat least 20 million dollars on the transfer

    Riquelme still has a role with Argentina which he does not want to relinquish
     
  9. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good points.

    The Ponzi scheme - err, the transfer fee - is the real issue.
     
  10. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So your saying that Riquelme will have the same Riquelme is going to have similar economic impact the Beckham has. Ok, so let's review some of the impact that Beckahm has had.

    they sold 250,000 jersys with his name
    LA signed a big deal with Herbal Life for uniform front
    LA signed more season tickets and increased sales at other stadiums

    Can you explain the economic impact that Riquelme would have? And when you are talking about marketing what are you referring to? The selling of the team and league? Or using the league and teams to sell products/services for other companies/sponsers.
     
  11. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    No, JRR would not have the same economic impact that Beckham has had. But the type of impact he will have is an excellent complement to the type of impact Becks is having. There are great synergies there. A JRR deal would hardly even make sense if the Beckham deal had not occurred.

    You are omitting probably the single most valuable, albeit less easily quantifiable, value generated by Beckham: national and global media exposures of the MLS and Galaxy brands. Every Beckham story in the papers and on TV that puts those brands in the public eye is like a kind of "free" advertising. I'm not going to delve into all the mechanics of the industry, but PR companies get paid a lot of money to generate and track such exposures and to measure their economic value to the client. Keep in mind that Red Bull has a very successful track record of generating virtually all its publicity by doing things like buying sports teams rather than buying commercials and print ads. Red Bull seems to think that the brand value generated by RBNY alone is worth at least the many millions of bucks per year the team is losing on soccer operations alone.

    It is plausible that JRR will be more successful in generating such exposures to different audiences than Beckham: Spanish-speaking and soccer-sophisticated audiences, you might categorize them as. He would likely attract a different class of jersey sponsor... perhaps a multinational widely invested across Latin America and among US Hispanics. (BBVA?)

    The increased profile of MLS with these audiences would bear much fruit in the long term, in areas from market development to player acquisition to TV deals.

    And JRR would, I have no doubt, sell plenty of jerseys and tickets too.

    Now we know he will rot at Villareal for another four months. The transfer fee is only going to go down between now and then. And his base pay package may be much less than the $4-$5 million bandied around, as that would include bonuses he sure won't be earning while in exile from the squad and the pitch.

    Much as I'd love to see him in SJ, a pitifully bad expansion team coached by Frank Yallop would not be a good fit. DC would probably be optimal after all, and then maybe the Quakes could pick up Gomez.
     
  12. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Dude, he relinquished and then unrelinquished it just in the past year. Try to keep up.
    Plus, even if Riquelme's patriotism eclipses his depression for the next few years, Beckham has already demo-ed how an indispensable superstar maintains his national team place while playing in MLS.
    Not a problem.
     
  13. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    13 million euros is a lot of cash for a guy who probably wouldn't put that many butts in seats in MLS.
     
  14. AmericanKaka

    AmericanKaka Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    OK, let's put the transfer fee objection to rest permanently; we now have reports that indicate that Villareal is willing to let JRR go much cheaper than anyone imagined; maybe as little as 5 million pounds according to this article:

    http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/oct22f.html

    At that price, if the player can be convinced to accept a move and the ownership is willing to pay up for the salary, it would be a fantastic deal. In terms of proven quality per transfer dollar, that's even more of a steal than the deal that brough Henry to Barca.

    San Jose is out because they will be slumming in Buck Shaw for the next couple of years. There will be no empty seats to fill.

    Seattle might work if they come in next season as it would help them fill up the vast empty maw of Qwest and look slightly less pathetic.

    Houston would be attractive as an opportunity to take a good team and make it great; JRR might not be interested in carrying a bunch of no-hopers.

    But I think DC would be ideal. They still have RFK with plenty of room to fill, they have the best possible demographic with tons of South Americans in the region. And they would become a serious force in Americas-level competition if they had him.

    Riquelme to DC NOW!!! (Well, in January when the transfer window opens, anyway.)
     
  15. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Riquelme is being linked to Juventus now ... Apparently Claudio Ranieri is a big Riquelme fan. They may end up doing a straight player swap for Tiago (Portugese international). Another rumour has Riquelme going to Napoli for a full year loan.

    It look's like Villarreal is still looking for creative options to deal with Riquelme without having to lower the asking price...
     
  16. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    another gem from superdave, and his short-sighted vision of finance and opportunity.

    dave why don't you go be "super" on topics that you understand, like coloring books and big league chew, because you clearly don't understand the financial implications of signing world class players.

    with that said, I'm not sure any of us can fully understand what a player like Juan Roman would be worth. He does not have the name star-power that would resonate with mainstream America, like Zidane, Ronaldinho, etc...Though a few games into the season, and seemingly endless highlights on Sports Center with his ridiculous dribbling skill (the best in the world IMO), and maybe he would get people and investors on board. Who knows though, as often times those are unquantifiable marketing strategies that can only be proven in the field. Even though superdave will tell you that it's all about ticket sales (even though ticket sales are only a percentage of gross revenues for franchises, and organizations).
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, dude, the picture hasn't significantly changed. You're comparing pounds to Euros. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    MLS would be really stupid to pay ~$10M in transfer money for a player of JRR's marketing appeal.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What truly world class players are available for that kind of money? Are ALL the rich clubs stupid? I mean, look at what mediocrities are being sold for in England.
     
  19. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you have done in depth market research to understand the impact a player like Riquelme would have on a league like MLS? You must be head of the institute at Accenture and spent hours on such research to come up with such conclusive data. Players that are nominated for FIFA world player of the year are never that marketable.:rolleyes:

    Clearly you don't understand marketing, so shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about. Athletic talent does not have some set ceiling on it's marketability. Marketability is created. I'm pretty sure Riquelme would instantly be the best player in MLS, and that would not be such a hard sell to the soccer fan in America. Am I going to try and quantify it, as only a genius like you can do? No, but I'm also going to consider anything as a possibility, not just a short sighted view of the world such as you seem to have, where all things superdave are right.

    wtf are you talking about? Seriously, I can't even understand you.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I know.
     
  21. BobyOne

    BobyOne Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he's saying that 10 mil. euros for a world class player is cheap looking at other recent transfers. And I agree with him. Something is definitely stinky if they can't unload him for $10 mil. euros. So either the figure is wrong, or Riquelme comes with some sort of baggage that we haven't heard about.

    Either way, the deal is not a no-brainer because why haven't other European clubs jumped on it then?
     
  22. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not arguing the value of the transfer market. Regardless of his assumed transfer fee, I think it is a dumb exercise to try and project his overall market value with no research (as superdave has done). I don't think he is a no-brainer either, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't work here.

    Also, I think part of the problem with Riquelme is that he does come with some baggage. He has quit on a few teams that he has played for, including his country, and had problems with a few managers. If one wants to argue that he could disrupt the chemistry of a team over here, then that could be a legit argument. However, I think the marketability of the product over here far exceeds the value of winning, and team chemistry when it comes to growing the game. I could be wrong about this, but would Riquelme be the perfect opportunity to get a star player who's talent might be undervalued in the transfer market because of his assumed baggage? It isn't very often that you can get a player of his caliber for a relatively small amount of money (in relation to the transfer market). This could also all be a moot point as the assumed transfer figure could be totally wrong, and they could be asking for much more.

    As far has superdaves point about European clubs shying away from him, and not being stupid. European clubs have much more at stake as far as team chemistry goes than MLS clubs do. MLS clubs are trying to grow at a grassroots level, meanwhile European clubs are trying to expand their brand by keeping their chemistry intact (or at least trying to), and winning on the biggest stages in the world.
     
  23. jade1mls

    jade1mls Member

    Jul 9, 2006
    Seattle


    cough, Denilson....

    I'd rather MLS clubs go to S. America and find the NEXT Riquelme which they could then sell on to a European super club and TAKE a nice transfer fee than pay for "world class players" who may or may not produce.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's soccer. In the United States. You don't need to do a detailed marketing study to know that a guy who is totally anonymous to the general sports fan won't be worth $16M for 2 years. Denilson has more marketing cache', and he obviously hasn't been worth $8M/year. EDIT: Jade beat me to the punch while I was writing. :D

    So he's sort of a combination of Gilles Grimandi and Amado Guevara, attitude-wise? Outstanding.

    If it was a situation where JRR would be getting paid the big DP money, and that was it, sure. But the massive (for MLS) transfer fee just completely takes this off the table.

    I'll make the same point I made before. Anderlecht has a bigger budget than the average MLS team. And for Anderlecht, there's genuine, proven financial value in winning. Why aren't they going after him? Or a Greek club?

    I don't understand this argument.
     
  25. rurik

    rurik New Member

    Feb 22, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, IMHO the "next Riquelme" is not going to turn into a Riquelme by playing in the MLS. An example might be Diego Buonanotte from River Plate; he's 19 and could be an up and coming superstar. But I don't think that MLS has the needed overall skill level, in play and coaching, or the intensity level to grow him into a superstar if he moved right now. Unfortunately, until MLS can ratchet things up they're going to be stuck with having to get older but more fully developed players.
     

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