I'm interested in seeing how divided the USMNT BS community is on whom should play for the Red/White/Blue. I fall strongly in the an American is an American and I don't care where you grew up but I'm interested to see the argument on the other side and how strongly it's held.
I don't really feel this way, but the argument that I can deduce is that for Americans born abroad, they potentially have multiple citizenships, so it's easier for them to merely pick a country that will get them to a World Cup without really feeling that they identify with the country they've chosen. In other words, they're considered mercenaries with no real loyalty to that country. That's where Donovan or Wambach's feelings most likely come from with respect to the MNT. This does not mean that the above doesn't apply to Americans born within the USA or its territories and military bases, of course. It's just that Americans born overseas have a bit of a higher cultural burden to satisfy with some parts of the American fan base than ones born in the USA proper.
If you call it soccer you're in automatically. If you call it football or bootsphere you need to pass a written test.
If you can't be arsed then you stay home. That is a coach thing, allowing players to get complacent. I never watched JJ walk to take a corner when we were losing, even if he did try to "sell" his dive a bit too regularly. I have seen Jozy walk for full games and Bradley is immortalized with the image of him walking to take a corner with our world cup hopes hanging in the balance. Judge individual eligible players on how they play for us period, IDGAF if they were born here and feel entitled to their spot as a birthright or if they were born elsewhere and play poorly, I want them out.
I am confused, in the tags u have pulisic in the second group....are u saying he doesn't qualify as an American? You also need to define what growing up in us soccer culture means especially with it changing so much in the last twenty years.
Yup, this. You gotta want to play for the NT, gotta give 100% for the NT. As long as you are eligible and do that, anyone should be allowed to play.
We don't need to judge, take their word. If the commitment isn't 100% there, it'll probably show up in their play.
Being a fan, coaching a team, and evaluating talent are all subjective. If in my opinion they don't put in a good shift, they can F*** off back to their clubs; be it Toronto, New York, Schalke, Juventus, or Barca or wherever the hell ever they came from. If it happens with any frequency then ....next!!
And what about someone like Nagbe who was born in Liberia but has only ever identified with the US? What if it’s someone who is born in the US and has only ever lived and identified with another country?
I think this goes back to the problem we have of assuming that any player who has played well at any club and has played well for the US in the past is automatically a must have for every camp, even if his recent performances have been shit. Imo we need to not call in guys who aren’t performing and not force them into the lineup hoping they will magically return to their old form.
No doubt. However, being a fan you making a judgment off of very little info. There's stuff we will never see that a coach does that makes a world of difference. You can't judge if a player is there based off a couple questions from a journalist or 90 minutes. There's also stuff we won't know about the other players not called in. As a fan we tend to make snap judgments off of games. It's ok cause that's what we have to work with but you got to understand we making an opinion off of 1/3 of the info which in regular life would be a bad decision.
I'm solidly in the later category. If you're a citizen, you want to play for the US and you're good enough, please come aboard. I think in many ways, it's a strong positive to put a bit of perspective on the players we produce through US soccer. If we can't produce guys through US soccer channels that are as good as players who learn the game elsewhere, the problem is not with the players outside the system, it's with the system. I understand the perspective that if all our players grow up outside the system, then the national team is disconnected from US soccer and doesn't really reflect the progress or lack thereof within the domestic game. We can get a false sense that all is OK domestically when the national team is just being propped up with players from abroad. But that just sounds to me like US soccer needs to do better if they want "their" players to lead the national team. When the domestic game produces better players, they get to play. But, I see no reason to artificially prop up these players at the expense of US citizens who are better until that happens.
Exactly why I would avoid any judgements about a guy's American-ness. I am concerned primarily with results. If he sux during games then I don't really care how he fits in team chemistry, or how well he practices, or that he is flag waving patriot of the highest order with an eagle clutching a flag tattoo. I don't care if he is str8t or gay or spends the whole day wanking, as long as he shows up at game time and does a job, leaving it all on the field, I am good. I have already seen how it works when we impose some artificial construct of american-ess in the case of Bruce Arena. The whole argument is a strawman deflecting the degree of suckitude in our domestic league. The domestic league just used a xenophobic puppet to end our WC2018 hopes and clearly that didn't work out so well. Am I the only one who finds irony in the fact that we "Americans" are having a conversation about mercenaries when we have the largest military for hire in the history of man.
I'd be interested to hear what the strongest MLS backers have to say: cleansheetsbsc, MP9, Sunyuntuy, superdave, deadtigers, Dirt McGint, Honore de Ballsac, Geneva
Doesn't answer my question. I get it though you are trying to start a strange argument. Still am curious though what us the american soccer culture.
Let me be more clear why CP is in the second group: he explicitly stated that he rejects the opinion that only those who played/grew up in the US represent our domestic soccer culture so his opinion belongs in group two. Just because one was born in the US and learned to play here doesn't mean that you have believe option #1. Hopefully, that's clear enough for you.
so if you are so clear with one side as are 99% of the country....why ask the question? are you trying to push racism/xenophobia to the front to like make it look ok somehow?
When you see Altidore or Dempsey walking around, you question their Americanness too? Just stop, the best / hard working players will be on the team, stop these dumb nationalistic crap. If they are good enough and they want to play for our country, everybody is welcome.