Stop frothing and think for a minute. Review your own quote: There is only one US player that I am aware of that has a similar resume -- just change "Liverpool" for "ManU" and add the fact that Kirovski scored a boat load of goals, and JoKi was in the position that you describe Whitbread being in. It is nothing more than a "promising start" and your repeated assertion that Whitbred will make it to the Liverpool first team is not at all certain. I am neither optimistic or pessimistic about Whitbred's future -- just realistic that he may become a first teamer for Liverpool or he may not -- based on his resume so far, nothing more can be said. Now if people have actually seen him play and on that basis upgrade his chances, that I respect.
The comparison to Kirovski is irrelevant because Jovan had to leave Man U because of work permit issues. If Ferguson had been able to keep him and bring him into the first team, who knows what kind of player he could have become. Whitbread has no such issues because he has a UK passport. Whether he makes it or not, who knows. However, this comparison has no merit other then the fact they are both American.
Whitbred had not formerly shown much interest in playing for the USA. He is also eligible for England (I believe) and only recently made a commitment to play for the US. As a result, he has not been in the pool contenders until this time. He certainly would have been if he had made his decision (to play for US) earlier.
juventino3, Does the phrase "don't count your chicks before they are hatched" sound familiar to you? There are tons of talented young players around the world who end up flipping hamburgers (or similar jobs) in a few short years.
Liverpool develops players in a different manner than Manchester United - they stress quality over quantity and generally develop players more slowly. Man Utd had an enormous amount of depth at the club when Kirovski was there. Beckham, Giggs, Butt, Neville & Neville, Robbie Savage (originally a striker), Scholes (originally a striker). . . It was pretty tough for young players to break into the set-up. Granted some of the players I mention here were young EPL players, not reserve players during Kirovski's entire stay at the club, but you get the picture. Liverpool bleeds of some of its youth/reservists and has begun to do more of this under Houllier (Stephen Wright, David Thompson, Dominic Matteo, etc) but a lot of that was due to the need to add quality fast to a depleted side. Whitbred really is following the Jamie Carragher, Fowler, Gerrard, Owen, Mellor, Partridge, Walsh, Warnock, Le Tellec, Sinama-Pongelle. . . role of mastering each level before he gets a look at the next. The fact that he was given a squad number is very significant. Rarely do 'Pool players get a squad number without getting a significant looksee at the full squad level. There is also the contributing fact that Zak's dad is on staff in the development department. Some might say there is nepotism at work - but if you ask me, a guy who is tasked by Gerard Houllier (who was a legend in this role with French National Team system) with developing players knows a thing or two about how to do it. And wouldn't take a flier on his own son unless he had a good reason for it. Plus, 'Pool is going to be in the market for some young central defenders to replace the solid but aging Henchoz Hyppia pairing. Both are 30 and are already vulnerable to pacy forwards. Liverpool really needs a solid, athletic central defender waiting in the wings - as Djimi Traore and converted midfielder Igor Biscan are more cover than a longterm solution. Jamie Carragher may eventually move into the starting lineup at center back, but they are still relatively thin at the position. Lots of us hope that Jean-Alain Boumsong comes to 'Pool (along with Djibril Cisse) from Auxerre. But if he does, I would love to see a Boumsong-Whitbred pairing. In short, if Whitbred was not a long-term candidate for center back, I would be very surprised. Because (considering the present depth of the position) Houllier never would have sold Stephen Wright and not added other young prospects at the youth/fringe level if he were not confident that he had at least one grade A prospect in the pipeline.
Funny. I can see your point since Kirovski went from a Champions League championship-caliber club to one much lower ... whoops, he went to a club that also won the Champions League. But of course, the coach at Dortmund was no SAF, ... wait hasn't Omar Hitzfield actually won the Champions League with two different teams? Come on, Kirovski had good opportunities to shine. If he had stayed with ManU .. well he would have wound up on the end of the bench of an EPL team a littel faster. Well some crazy people think you can actually be developed outside of the UK. The issue remains that just because you start on the reserve side of a top EPL team at 19, this is ZERO guarantee that you will be anything better than a guy holding onto the last job on a mediocre team at age 27. That's all I want recognized. Try to remember it when you type. And other than the fact that they both also started at a top EPL's reserve side at age 19. Other than that, you are right.
More to the point, if such a guy were an expert at developing talent, then presumably he'd know what to do at an early age when it came to his own son.
Arguing with you is like talking to a brick wall. We will all make sure to heed Jovan Kirovski Syndrome before getting excited about any young American starting on an EPL reserve team!!
Finally, you got it. Now say it slowly, just to make sure it sticks in your head: Starting on a EPL reserve team is no guarantee of a successful pro club career, much less a successful career with the USMNT. And they say people never learn! P.S. I am unclear whether you are still arguing that Kirovski would have been the US Maradona if only he had Sir Alex Fergunson as his coach instead of that dunce Omar Hitzfield.
Though in the soccer community, it does seem that every dad knows the best developmental track for his son .
Actually I really never agreed to anything. All I did was give an opinion. I think that within that next couple of years Whitbread will make Liverpool's full squad catapulting him into the US pool of defenders. You are saying think about what happened to Kirovski before getting too excited. I would rather not think about Jovan to be honest. Regarding Jovan, I do think that he would have become a better player if he could have stayed at Man U. US Maradona is a bit much, but I think he could have become a class player. Fergie knew him best so he probably could have brought that out of him. After all, Sir Alex's record for nuturing young talent is impeccable.
Funny. You guys are arguing someone you probably never see him play. The games I saw Whitbread played in the left back position. He used to play in left winger until he grow into a 6-4. From the games I saw that he had very good pass ability--one time hit under pressure to his OWN teammates. Not those over flying everybody's head long kick our defenders are perfect at. Didn't see enough with he on attacking side, but he definately is not a R. Carlos style left back.
Shaster -- I respect your opinion because it is based on seeing Whitbread play. That is a valid basis to predict success -- or not -- at the USMNT play. What I don't respect is people who claim that Whitbread will be a factor with the USMNT based solely on the fact that he starts with the reserve side of a top EPL side at a fairly young age. As Kirovski proves, doing that is no guarantee of even making a World Cup team. Until Whitbred either plays with the first team successfully or shines for the Under 20s, he is merely one of many potentials for the USMNT. P.S. I still can't see any basis for concluding that SAF is so much superior to Omar Hitzfield that Kirovski would have been a significantly better player. My read is that Kirovski is a very skilled player (and that is obviously due in large part to SAF, though that doesn't make Fergunson the best at developing young talent). But the fundamental flaw in his game is that he lacks quickness (and he doesn't have the endurance to compensate). On top of that, he is not a clinical finisher on a consistent basis. While he could succeed despite these flaws at the lower level of reserve play (especially given the skill of his teammates), these flaws have been his undoing at the first division level. And I don't think SAF could do anything more to make him quicker and have more endurance. Thus, Whitbread could succeed at the Reserve level and not be USMNT material. Or it could be a good indicator. Like many of the other prospects bandied about, we just have to be patient.
Our opinions about Whitbread have been formulated on things that Shaster, Rongen, and other articles have said about Whitbread. Case closed. Last time I checked this was a discussion forum. Your opinion has been noted. Now stop boring us to death and get on with it.
How did I miss the election where you were elected moderator or representative for this thread? Or is that what the yellow card signifies? Any opinion that strong based on what is said in articles, by coaches with a poor a record as Rongen and Big Soccer posters is hard to fathom. As long as I have my posting privileges and the strength to deal with idiocy, I will continue to post -- when and where I feel -- opinions rooted in facts and some command of logic.
One thing I agree is a player if he plays for Liverpool first team may not automatically fit in US Nat team because we are grow very fast now! But in the defense, it is still our weak part. So if you can play for a first division team in a regular basis--such as Onyewu begin to doing now, then you should get a look from Bruce. Remember a 2 years older--but still 21 years old, still consider a rookie defender. When he reaches Boca's age 24, then Whitbread maybe in his peak form.
God you must be one of the biggest *#*#*#*#ing losers on earth. Since you know so much about football, I would like to know what's the highest level you have played at? How many games in different countries in Europe have you gone to see matches? Judging by your number of posts, you are just probably some no life fat twat who sits around posting messages on BS all day.
First, that was the most senseless post I've seen in sometime. Next, even if it wasn't a post that had nothing to do with anything, none of the questions you asked matter at all to knowing much about football, I bet you don't match up to nearly as many people 'round here as you think when it comes to footy knowledge
I resemble that remark! We all have opinions. Do we even know for sure that Zak has given up on playing for England?