Which is better for the future of Canadian soccer: its own league or Tor, Van, Mon in MLS?

Discussion in 'Canada' started by pc4th, May 2, 2008.

  1. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is better for the future of Canadian soccer: its own league or Tor, Van, Mon in MLS?
     
  2. devioustrevor

    devioustrevor Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    Napanee, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Our own league would be optimal. But I'm a realist so 3 Canuckle teams in the MLS would be great for the game in Canada.
     
  3. SoccerNewf

    SoccerNewf Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    Pasadena, NL
    I like the idea of those 3 teams in MLS.
    However, there is a lot of room for other Canadian cities to have
    teams in the USL-1 or 2 division.

    Also, I think if the the new Champions League needs to have 4 teams competing at the top. I am not sure if this has already been talked about, but obviously the 3 current teams would automatically qualify and take 1 more team from a tournament, that could draw from CSL and USL-PDL teams.

    Kind of integrates the whole system even though we don't have our own team per say.
     
  4. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    x 2
     
  5. Nazzer

    Nazzer New Member

    Jan 12, 2008
    Penticton,BC,Canada
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    -If the CSL gets a shot then the Pacific Coast Soccer League deserves a shot as well, as they are both listed as division 3 leagues by the CSA.

    I think it would be best to have the three major cities get MLS teams, then (assuming the other two teams don't take the approach that Mo Johnston has) there will be three Canadian teams having Canadian players in a top league. MLS is a higher skill level than any Canadian League will ever be.

    With that we would hopefully be able to get more USL 1 teams in CFL sized cities.
     
  6. devioustrevor

    devioustrevor Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    Napanee, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    In another thread here on BS I suggested the winner of the Canadian Open Cup be given the 4th slot in the Canada Cup for Champions League qualifying.
     
  7. ljubiana

    ljubiana New Member

    Feb 12, 2007
    Victoria, Canada
    Both are positive developments for the game; however as we've seen before, it's quite hard to create a league out of nothing. By bringing financially stable teams to the biggest 3 cities, we can foster greater exposure to the game, and, as the game becomes more popular in other communities, eventually have the popular support for our own league. However, one thing to think about is how we don't want Canadians to simply think of soccer as just another North American sport, and by that I mean a sport where a continental league is the only option. If Torontonians and Montrealers are faced with the options of having MLS teams or facing weaker opposition from the rest of the country, I fear the former option would be preferred, and would severely limit the chances of moving beyond the continentalist structure.
     
  8. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    But we have our own league - it's just there's only 3 teams in it this year. :)
     
  9. Scorpion26

    Scorpion26 Member

    May 1, 2007
    NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Well it would be better for the Canadian teams to join MLS. 3 or more would do suffice in the MLS. In Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec, Toronto, Ottawa, and many more cities could be good choices for bring in MLS teams into.
     
  10. devioustrevor

    devioustrevor Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    Napanee, Ontario
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    If Quebec couldn't support NHL hockey, they're not going to support a MLS team.

    CFL teams operate on a pretty similar budget to MLS teams and Ottawa has already lost two CFL teams. MLS would be a no go in all probability.

    Edmonton and Calgary have potential down the line, but the abject failure of their USL teams doesn't bode well.
     
  11. Soccerfever

    Soccerfever Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Laval(Canada)
    Uhhh I cannot believe the poll results!Most of the people who voted in this poll aren't asking for more and could settle with only 3 clubs(If given the chance to have it's own league,when most countries have theirs,which means tens of clubs!) that belong/are related to US Soccer and you expect the game to grow and be looked at seriously in this country with so little at our disposal?!??!

    I said it before,and I'll say it again.A league is what we need here!

    It's nice to see that Toronto FC's supporters so devoted to the team but let's face it guys,I remember that the *ssclown named Kevan Pipe(I know that he's not working with the CSA anymore) played a big part when Toronto got it's MLS franchise.I also recall that he said that he wanted Toronto FC to be the core of our Men's national team.Look at Toronto FC's roster today and it's far from being a club that is composed mostly of Canadian players.At the moment there are about 7 players(out of 25) who are available for Team Canada.Anyway you look at it,that's not a lot!Add this to the fact that the important players in Toronto FC's lineup this season(so far) are non Canadian players such as Danny Dichio,Amado Guevara,Maurice Edu,Laurent Robert,Jeff Cunningham,Tyrone Marshall,Todd Dunivant and so on...I don't see how good this is for Canadian soccer in a near future.Also look how former Toronto FC's Canadian players are being put aside.Kenny Stamatopoulos is gone,Chris Pozniak is now with Chivas USA,Adam Braz got waived,Miguel Canizales got waived aswell,Kevin Harmse hasn't got lots of playing time this season with the club....So with so many of our players facing tough situations,a league is what is needed.3 clubs will never be enough and will never make us a force to be reckoned with in CONCACAF or in the world.Leagues make strong NTs,3 clubs won't do a whole lot on consistant basis.

    I even checked the Montreal Impact roster recently and was disapointed at how low the number of Canadian players was.same with the Vancouver Whitecaps.Unless you want to rely on foreigners from elsewhere for Team Canada.

    These are the facts guys,perhaps not as good as many of you thought they were...

    I'm sick of us being the joke of CONCACAF.
     
  12. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Get all Canadian MLS players at Toronto
    Go with MLS, that´s the way to go. This league will be a lot better in 5 years
     
  13. SpaceAddict

    SpaceAddict New Member

    Oct 16, 2006
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Canada should have their own league. The point of the matter is MLS is considered THE UNITED STATES' TOP FLIGHT SOCCER LEAGUE. There are plenty of cities in Canada worthy of supporting their own 12 team league.
     
  14. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    There is no way you can get a rival to the MLS with the talent-level Canada has. Nobody would care about the CSL
     
  15. Soccerfever

    Soccerfever Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Laval(Canada)
    Uhhh....What makes you think that?How can you be so sure that nobody would care?We need a league for Canadian soccer,not a league to rival the MLS...
     
  16. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Because....

    There are not 120 to 150 semi-decent soccerplayers in Canada to start a 8 team league
    Even if there is a league it will be inferior to the MLS, which means that it will be a feeder-league for the MLS
    There is hardly any money raised the CLS can't compete with the MLS about attracting foreign talent
    No way the CSL can raise more money then Canadian teams can in the MLS. They should focus on raising money in the Canadian market(ticket sales, merchandise, TV rights for local market etc) and use the MLS to give them revenue from the league wide business
     
  17. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I feel that the whole poll and thread are muddled:
    - How do you define "Canadian soccer"? Is it success for the national team or bums in the stands? Because a CSL is better for the former in the long run, while MLS clearly is better for the latter (although you'd have more teams).
    - People are answering along the lines of "what I'd rather watch", which will probably be the higher calibre and existing league (MLS).

    I don't think there's any doubt that a sustainable Canadian league, with 150+ professional Canadian players and youth academies, would do much more for Canadian soccer than 3 MLS teams and 30+ pro players, simply because it's a numbers game. You'll give a better chance to more players to become pro and find more diamonds in the rough.

    That being said, it doesn't look like a true Canadian professional league is feasible at this point. I mean, if we can't even have a pro HOCKEY league in this country, what chance does any other sport have? I guess the CFL is the exception that proves the rule.
     
  18. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Nobody has something to gain with a beer league with 150 players, 120-130 of which can´t play at a decent level.

    If there are 3 teams with 10 Canadian players the competion for those spots will be huge which will lead to a higher.

    The other 120 players can develop there skills elsewhere, like they do now as well
     
  19. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    How do you base you argument that it would be a beer league when it's quite clear you don't know much about Canadian soccer in the first place.

    As TFC is showing, Canadian talent isn't even been giving the opportunity.
     
  20. Rowdies4ever

    Rowdies4ever New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    New England
    You guys do realize that this Canada-only national soccer league idea has been tried before, right?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_League#Original_Canadian_Soccer_League_.281987-1992.29

    Note that the only teams that survived the collapse of the original CSL in 1992 were Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal - and they immediately joined a United States based soccer league! Do you maybe notice a pattern developing here?

    Face facts. For the kind of money that is likely to be invested in a Canada-only soccer league, you aren't going to get much better than a "beer league" and that isn't going to change in the near future. You can be in denial all you want, but just saying it ain't so, don't make it so. Yes Canada has some good players - but they are playing in MLS or in Europe, because no one in Canada is going to invest enough money into a Canada-only soccer league to pay the good Canadian players what they are worth.

    A Canada-only national league would be a good thing for Canadian soccer, but it isn't going to address the most immediate problems that Canadian soccer is facing right now (a badly organized CSA, for instance). I suggest you look at a country with similiar issues (ie, where soccer isn't the most popular sport and where the best soccer clubs don't play in their own country's national league), Wales, and look at how long it took for Wales to have its own national soccer league:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Wales#A_troubled_start

    Interestingly the Welsh league started the same year the original CSL folded, in 1992, and the three biggest Welsh clubs still play in English leagues, not in the Welsh league, just as Canada's three biggest soccer clubs play in US leagues, not in Canadian leagues.

    Hopefully it won't take Canada another century before it has its own national soccer league - but it won't be a catastrophe for Canadian soccer if it does take that long. Creating a national soccer league isn't like waving a magic wand that will fix all of Canadian soccer's problems. Establishing soccer as a professional, popular, money making, media attention getting, spectator sport in three of Canada's biggest cities will do a lot for the long term health of soccer in Canada (and may eventually make a Canada-only national soccer league feasible). That's not going to happen if you wait around for a Canada-only soccer league.

    If it were feasible to recreate the original CSL, someone should be doing it - they aren't, and there are good reasons why they aren't. It's about 16 years since the original CSL folded, and no one is stepping up to make it happen again. Unless money starts magically falling from the skies and into the laps of people who want a Canada-only national soccer league, it ain't going to happen in the foreseeable future. There aren't enough billionaire soccer fans in Canada to subsidize your dreams, guys. I wish it weren't true, but it is.
     
  21. ljubiana

    ljubiana New Member

    Feb 12, 2007
    Victoria, Canada
    But you cannot compare Wales with Canada. For one thing, Wales is part of the UK. Furthermore, Canada is 11 times bigger. How about you compare Canada with a much much more relevant example, Australia. Lots of comparisons there.. both have medium sized populations (although Canada is 50% larger), both have large geographical areas and are sparsely populated, both are very wealthy, both are societies where sports in general are quite popular, both are countries where there are already other sports that are more popular than soccer. The difference is that Australia now has a top-flight domestic soccer league that is from what I've heard gaining credibility, and already ready for expansion. Of course, there are some differences that can't go unnoticed, but in general, it appears that this is a model that we can realistically emulate.
     
  22. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    According to your pattern, MLS shouldn't exist then since a league has been tried before and failed. Yet it was ignored, further negating the pattern that you claim.

    How would you know that? You seen Canadian talent constantly. Even with your claims of players that go to MLS and Europe, that still leaves a large amount of talent that is wasted. Not useless talent at all.

    Of course, cleaning up the CSA means getting rid of anything associated with it. That would include the old history of the CSL, the Impact, Whitecaps, and TFC.

    Yet in Wales, Wrexham is out of the league entirely. So much for the hope of the Big 3 helping Welsh football.

    The let's forget about Canada in the international soccer world. The sport won't advance with a domestic league, regardless of the moans of the Big 3.

    Please state those reason or refrain from making such arguments.
     
  23. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    I know more about Canadian soccer and soccer in general then you will ever know

    As for another poster, Australia does not have a US near, with a (semi) succesfull league
     
  24. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    There is already a National league, it´s even recognized by the FIFA, but the only problem is that the level isn´t any higher then a typical pick-up game. It does not make sense to try upgrade it because you never can. It isn´t even a feeder league for the MLS
     
  25. ljubiana

    ljubiana New Member

    Feb 12, 2007
    Victoria, Canada
    Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware of that. Good point, it probably explains why Canada doesn't have an American football league of its own, with attendance averages of 30,000 per game, despite being right next to the centre of the american football universe. Lots of countries have bigger countries near them, Paul. Yet you don't hear anyone calling on FC Kobenhavn or Ajax to join the Bundesliga, and nobody talks about FC Porto and Benfica in LaLiga. Even the old firm remains part of the SPL, despite Scotland being part of the same country as England. Do you know why that is? It's because these fans are willing to sacrifice the quality of play, and the strength of their competition for the pride and satisfaction of having a national league to call their own. I don't know if you've seen the MLS, but, no offence to TFC fans out there, it's pretty poor. It's getting better, but its still painful to watch. With so many kids in this country playing soccer, I think that if you add a top flight national league, with good coaching and scouting, you will see the end product of the game in Canada improve by leaps and bounds in a relatively short time.
     

Share This Page