Which city and why?

Of all the places mentioned I think Jacksonville followed by Ft. Lauderdale are the worst locations/markets for soccer in FL.

 

And still do. Most of the press and the NFL heirarchy disparage Jacksonville for getting a franchise and being a 2nd tier city. They often remark on the small television market, the lack of fan support, and endlessly talk about moving the Jags to LA, London, Mexico, Toronto, or anywhere else they think is worthy. Personally, it is all a bit grating and annoying to hear but there is some truth to what they say. Our television market is small, our fan support wanes every now and then but not as bad as some, and there are bigger markets out there that have more television viewers and richer markets than Murderville.

I touched upon this in the two cities in Florida, but Jacksonville's leaders and city council does not want any sport, let alone soccer, to compete with the Jags for ticket buyers. They have kept the A-league out of the area by not providing a stadium or venue for the teams to play. One would think that Jacksonville would be perfect for the MLS if it weren't for the NFL being here it would be true.

These problems could be overcome only if Wayne Weaver, the owner of the Jags, sees that there is money to be made and would back an MLS team. Now that Seattle has gotten a franchise and being able to play in their NFL stadium, this could be possible, but this is very wishful thinking. First, Jacksonville does not have the money or industry to support another MLS team. Unless there is a major boom or an industry that pays its workforce well, then it isn't happening.

Believe me when I say I would love for Jacksonville to join the MLS, but I don't see it.

 

If NFL leaves Jacksonville, would it be a good spot for a MLS team or would it still be a NFL stronghold as fans go..?

 

Tampa and Miami, simply because of the history and to a lesser extent, the fan base. As much as I despise Miami, it is a strong youth market with an international population that loves football.

Tampa is more traditional in terms of ethnic makeup, but I remain convinced the Rowdies were no fluke. In either case, the marketing and stadium situation much be sorted out to reach out to fans.

I spoke with Rob Stone and Tim Holt about this topic in length and there is some exciting news about pro soccer in both cities. I am still waiting on some interviews, but the story should be up in my blog next week (see signature below)

 

At least there were NFL fans in Jacksonville -- plenty of American football fans to draw on -- and that's not the case with MLS. The NFL can expect to tap a significant fan base in any US city, with the possible exception
of Los Angeles (!)

Miami would seem the most sensible choice, but if 'sensible' had been considered back in '96, we wouldn't have MLS at all, let alone a league looking to expand.

 

The first city that can build a stadium and find an ownership group.

 

Well...So far we have only heard about Miami from MLS abd only about Miami from the media.
So let me guess that Miami is the only serious candidate in Florida right now.

But yeah, maybe the Glazers give up on trying to make Man United profitable and sell the club, they might make a nice profit that way, and decide to look into MLS instead..who knows?

 

First, Happy Holidays to all. I would say Jacksonville would be a good candidate for the MLS if the Jags leave, but I suspect that most would go hunting for a new NFL team rather than accept an MLS team. The case for Jacksonville would be:
Jacksonville has a strong soccer tradition given we had an NASL team in the 70's.
It is a popular youth sport.
We would have a stadium, not sss mind you, that can hold both national and international tournaments.
There would be no major competition from other sports without the NFL here.
Growing ethnic population
Jacksonville has land to build a sss.
Pretty much assured that we could sell 20-30 thousand tickets.
Have the largest southern television market available if Miami or Atlanta does not get a team.

That is pretty much all the advantages to having a team in Jax.

 

According to this list, Tampa ranks higher than Miami, and Orlando also outranks Jacksonville. As do Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham, Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville, West Palm Beach and several other places.

Hard for me to take Jacksonville seriously as an option for MLS.

With MLS looking at Miami (16), Philadelphia (4), and St. Louis (21) I don't see Jacksonville (49) as anything to consider seriously. But, as with all expansion threads, I have to say that if an ownership group and a stadium appears, then MLS will be there.

But it's even less likely considering that the current smallest market in MLS is Salt Lake City -- #35 on the list I linked.

 

Your numbers are correct on Jacksonville's television market when viewed as an individual market, however, the point I was making was that the surrounding tv areas of Florida, Alabama, and Georgia could be combined to give Jacksonville a larger television market. Mind you, this is only a best spin scenario for a Jacksonville franchise.

 

Why would Orlando even be considered? Thats a serious question...Orlando to me seems like the best place being that its centrally located,but would it have enough support?

Orlando Renegades
Orlando Hurricane
Florida United

I would like to see a team in both Miami and TB though. In dream land I would prefer a team in Pensacola or Panama City-close drive for me.

 

I don't see Jacksonville for many of the reasons stated above. My personal choice is Tampa but thats a biased opinion.

I think Miami is a strong candidate, but how is their attendance with the USL team? I wouldn't want to destroy that new franchise and pulling them up to the MLS would be a difficult proposition to say the least. (How will ownership handle the rise in costs, would new ownership be placed?) Also Miami is notorious for lackluster attendance with nearly every major sport, (pretty bandwagon-jumping city except for the beloved Dolphins, just ask the Marlins, Panthers and Heat)

Orlando is a VERY good setting. Nice city, obviously tip-top when it comes to tourism already and not much competition for the sports dollar. (Magic, Indoor Football and UCF Sports) It's a very central location so the fanbase could benefit greatly. Also UCF just built a brand new stadium for their football team and could use the extra revenue or just use the Citrus Bowl, whichever is cheaper. History may be lacking compared to Miami and Tampa but the stigma of failed franchises is also missing a definite plus in a business owner's eyes.

But I'm a total homer so BRING BACK THE MUTINY!!!! TAMPA.....BAY!!!!!!

 

After seeing how Toronto and Seattle are taking ST deposits we might disregard any USL attendances as having any impact on MLS attendance figures I guess.

 

Completely wrong.

The Jaguars are a playoff team who has had three home games blacked out and a fourth that should have been but they decided not to because it was the opening game. People dont get behind anything other than UF here. Plus this place is really small. When they say Jax is approx 1 million people that doesnt mean there are another million or so in the suburbs, Jax is the suburbs. Trust me, I would love to see it work, but it would be a disaster.

 

I don't think he will be selling them anytime soon.

"Manchester United brings in record profit"
http://www.eufootball.biz/Finance/241207-Manchester-United-record-profit.html

But maybe he can take some of that profit and bring a team to Tampa

 

You realise that they got a $1.3bn debt as well?..The interest alone will take a huge chunk out of those profits.

But anyway it´s rather odd that he ain´t involved more in Florida soccer..

 

Orlando and Tampa seem to be the best candidates.I know theres alot of sports fans in Tampa and bringing back the Mutiny could draw decent crowds for some years.

As someone said theres really not alot of competition for the sports dollar in Orlando,other than the Magic.Alot of people go to UCF football games and Predator games but thats not many months out of the year.

The only major sports fanchise competing during the MLS schedule would be the Predators who start their season next month.Orlando could definately average 15,000 consistently for many years

 

While you do raise a valid point about bandwagon fans, it applies to almost every city in pro sports in the US. Here is a list of pro teams that do not have bandwagon fan bases:

-NY Yankees
-NY Mets
-Chicago Cubs
-Boston Red Sox
-LA Lakers
-To a lesser extent the LA Dodgers
-Canadian based NHL franchises
-99% of the time, every NFL franchise

Every time anyone talks about the South Florida sports teams, all they can say is how bad the fans are, except for the Dolphins(who deserve the very least support, if any at all). ANY non-NFL team except those I've mentioned is only popular with the fans when they are winning. Of course some markets are better than others, but for the most part what goes on in S. Florida is the norm around the country. If the team is losing, seats will be empty. If the team is winning and in the playoffs, seats are filled. Simple as that. Miami is #2 right now on the expansion watch list after St. Louis, followed by Montreal, Phoenix and Atlanta. I can see Miami being #18 and one of those 3 cities getting a relocation of either Chivas or K.C. I highly doubt a second NY team, personally I think it's outrageous to have 2 teams in one city in any sport(that's why I think Chivas could/should move), but especially in a 5th tier sport(6th if you count NASCAR... I don't). You've got to spread it around and create national interest.

Miami is the most likely site in Florida just because it's the biggest Florida city, in size and national exposure. They have to go to Miami, for real this time, first. The Fusion were hampered by a bad owner, bad location and bad stadium. The team was winning and, whaddaya know, the fans were starting to show up. If they kept the team, they would no doubt have gathered a dedicated following by now. The time is right to come back to South Florida. All the kids like me who grew up in the late 80's/early 90's playing soccer have grown up and are willing to support the sport. Not to mention the Heat and Marlins are in rebuilding mode, and the Dolphins are in perpetual free fall. Only the Panthers are showing any signs of life, so MLS could thrive here if they get in soon. NY, NE, CHI, SJ, and now Philly have proven that MLS can be viable in area with the 4 other major pro sports, so that's no excuse. If Miami falls through, I'd be rooting for Tampa, Orlando or Jacksonville to get a team for sure, and then hope for promotion/relegation to be implemented someday with Miami FC. But for now, Miami is the most sensible choice after St. Louis not only for demographics/TV market, but also because we have a city willing to spend on a SSS and land to put it on. We just need an owner to step up... which I have a good feeling may be Traffic Sports USA(Miami FC owners). This isn't inside information or anything, but I do intern with the team doing a lot of their graphics, and they seem committed to bringing and keeping top level soccer in Miami. I think that may be why they started up Miami FC in the first place, to get the ball rolling on eventually landing an MLS team(pure speculation, again I'm probably lower than the lowest guy on the ladder with the team, I know nothing lol). I have confidence that the city and an ownership group will step up and get a deal done before any of the other candidates gets anything together to grab that 18th spot, Florida sites or elsewhere. Should the MLS decide to go to 20 teams, I think Tampa or Orlando should definitely get a new team down the line, for rivalries sake, without having two teams in one city(LA, NY idea).

 

Jacksonville yes, Ft. Lauderdale, no. You're completely wrong about Ft. Lauderdale.

Ft. Lauderdale is really part of the greater Miami/south Florida market in the same way that San Jose is part of the greater San Francisco bay area market. Just as the NASL failed in San Francisco and Oakland but found success in San Jose, so too the NASL failed in Miami but found success in Ft. Lauderdale.

There's nothing wrong with Ft. Lauderdale as a potential MLS market; you can't blame Ft. Lauderdale for the Miami Fusion situation since it wasn't a team named Ft. Lauderdale and it was poorly managed and poorly operated. I'd be all for a revival of the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers as an MLS expansion club, if there was an ownership group, but this is unlikely now that they are going to tear down Lockhart Stadium.

Unless some weird ownership group comes from out of nowhere, it's going to be Miami and Tampa Bay, with maybe Orlando after that. Jacksonville is a small market with little soccer history (the Jacksonville Teamen were there for two seasons in the early 80's and didn't amount to much). I could see Jacksonville as a good USL club though.

Here's to the new Tampa Bay Rowdies and the Miami whatevers. Can't happen soon enough.

 

http://gamedaymls.blogspot.com/

Nice blog. And I agree the Rowdies were no fluke. Yes the sports market in the Tampa Bay area is more crowded now than it was in the 1970's, but the size of the Tampa Bay market itself has grown too and can support more.

It's a lot more sophisticated a market than most people realize, too, with lots of soccer savy old-ethnic migration from the north. I knew lots of soccer crazy Greeks from Chicago and soccer mad Dutch from Michigan in the Tampa Bay area back in the 1970's for instance, as well as soccer crazy Italians and Germans from New York and New Jersey, etc. The idea that the Tampa Bay area is nothing but a backwater full of redneck gridiron football fans is a gross exaggeration (maybe more true of north Florida, but not true of the Tampa Bay area).

Bring back the Tampa Bay Rowdies already!