People throwing around insults is a good sign that they don't have real arguments. Messi in 2022 without the France and Netherlands games is 'just' a 7.90 - 7.92 or something like that (if not weighted for minutes). The Barcelona Messi had created clear daylight with some other names of the past when the stars are aligned, you play for one of the three favorites, and fresh water is flowing to the house.
Let's see what FIFA does now. That it is now France putting pressure maybe helps, but otherwise it is FIFA procedure to do nothing while you can freely suspend e.g. Serbia players for similar things (that happen outside the field). Good example of why the long-time idea of Messi as saint and Ronaldo as bad guy needs a more balanced approach than the one of a Disney movie (since the late 1950s it is almost always the figure of the 'smaller' country to be framed as the spoiled bete noire). That being said, Argentina has maybe a more 'efficient' use of their population than many European countries do, for football. France has a higher percentage of 'black' people as any other (West-)European country, but still nothing like Brazil.
Tim vickery(the British SA expert) said it was “common” for Argentine fans to make monkey noises/gestures whenever they faced Brazil. that is what he said(don’t shoot the messenger) https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cpe39n00ng2o.amp This is news to me I never knew there was a notable racist contingent in Argentina until yesterday. I think someone also said what is in the dark will come to light(bible?) So let’s see Personally I have nothing against the Argentina NT except their GK He has the most punchable douchbag face something about him irks me.
Agree here, Emiliano are for me 8-9/10 on scale of "punchable douchbag face", but... Cristiano is 10/10 on this scale for sure (especially while crying, which is common nowadays due to permanent frustration of old narcissist)
Laughable analysis. A good World Cup but nothing epochal ? I suggest you watch those games again all of them. It was an excellent team performance. That the games with the Netherlands and France went to penalties was only down to fatigue and Scaloni's reluctance to make substitutions. It was a giveaway from Messi in the final for the third but he did play a key role in the second one of the best goals ever scored at a World Cup and he set up several other chances. Who are these mysterious players who did even better but didn't win ? Messi was great against Saudi, Mexico and Poland. Against Australia too. An amazing assist against the Netherlands and pivotal against Croatia and also France. For any player to succeed requires midfield control and Argentina achieved it in their matches allowing Messi to be at the business end whereas in previous years he's been asked to do everything and he simply cannot now at his age. For certain age is catching up with him and has been for years. He cannot get away from markers like he used to and the explosiveness too but he still has a razor like footballing brain and can still befuddle defenders and make passes. If he carries on he'll be a motivating figure for some of the fabulous younger players coming through, a super sub. He wasn't fit in the later stages of the Copa and it's no coincidence Colombia came under more pressure when he had to come off. Because he cannot press at all leaving the likes of Alvarez to do it by himself.
Sick and unhealthy. Since when ? Do you have medical reports for this ? The penalty was clear. Are you saying the referees were bought ? I mean the same referee awarded two penalties to France as well. Laughable. Had Scaloni made his substitutions in time and not dragged Pezzella onto the pitch you wouldn't even had a sniff. And when he did who created the best chances in extra time ? The performance of the midfield in the final, Mac Allister, Fernandez, de Paul , di Maria is one of the finest in many years from any team. Instead of moaning about it as other coaches have done like de la Fuente have a look at it. You may learn something from it.
It is ridiculous to consider the World Cup played by Messi to be epochal. As I have already said, it can be considered historic for the performances offered at the age of 34, certainly above average, as Zidane was in 2006. But if it must be considered one of the best World Cups ever played by a single player, then it is not it's not even close, that's my ridiculous opinion. Since you asked me for names, I can give you some, for example Johan Cruyff in 1974. Messi is not even unanimously considered the best player of the 2022 tournament.
Medical reports are confidential; what is this for leading question? I don't know how it works in Argentina but in a normal country that is not automatic public information (but I am sure Argentina, with their contacts in FIFA, can have access to this and gain advantage - when playing against a 'non-cartel' team). It is very obvious France and Netherlands had illnesses. Brazil had minor illnesses too. Many reports about this. Brazil was a potential opponent of Argentina if they had beaten Croatia. Somehow this are the only three teams for which such clear reports exist, long before it became clear Argentina would go in to win the World Cup, after losing their first game. In Sofascore (yes, that is a very good source) Argentina is just 0.16 ahead in team average for that game. Without extra time and the five substitutes the margin evaporates. The five substitutes rule favors a team as Argentina, I am the first to admit this. Against a sick team yes and with the Spanish speaking referee (Argentina can veto referees, as they did in 2014) favoring them albeit not to the same degree as the 'Anglogerman alliance' in the 2024 semi final. That was more scandalous. Every team makes their choices. I don't think Koeman is the second Michels or we are still state-of-the-art but with normal officiating we had played the final, 100%. To underman the midfield is a conscious choice and you cannot say it failed.
I don't know whether referees were bought, maybe they were just impressed and (deep down) thinking about their career and public pressure. Infantino and the Qatar organizers said all before the tournament they want Messi to win. Argentina got penalties in almost every game at the first 'possible' opportunity (many don't give it for what Di Maria did there). France really did not have this in the final, nor did Netherlands/Gakpo have this. France had also players carded for a dive that was clearly not a dive, in the sense there was no leg to leg contact. Marcus Thuram was tripped in the penalty box, at 2-2 but before extra-time. Instead of an arguable penalty he received a yellow card (which you really only can do when there is no contact at all).
"but but penalties" "but but French and Dutch players were sick" "but but Thuram was tripped" "but but organizers, Qatar, Illuminati, CIA, Mossad. Putin, Infantino, Opus Dei, FIFA, UEFA, Conmebol, AFCONm Hollywood etc. all wanted Messi to win".... "but but Messi never had a good game against big teams in the last few years" "but but 5 substitutes favor Argentina" imagine the audacity to still talk about Messi this way. Are these all, do you have any other BS to share? Is that why referees awarded two penalties to France in the final. so that France can equalize twice and match goes to penalties which is guaranteed to be won by Argentina, clown? because everyone wanted Messi to win.. Is that why the referees gave 10 minutes added time so that the Dutch could equalize? Did you ever question why France always gets penalties in the WC finals, now in three finals in a row? what's going on here? Interesting for someone like you that's so much into penalties to miss this "little" detail. Did you ever question how Portugal got 3 penalties in Euro 2021 in 3 games? at least try to fake it pretending to be a bit objective, your dislike for his success & mental gymnastics to create an alternative reality seem to be killing you inside, lol.. Oh, now, I see.. you are from Netherlands, now that explains the meltdown, no surprise here..
Sofascore shows Messi as the 2nd best player for Argentina in this Copa, and sixth best player in the whole tournament using its ratings. Based on this, Sofascore put Messi in their team of the tournament (he best 11). Looking these ratings, obviously, he had a great tournament. Surely, as a big Sofaratings fan, you agree with that, right?
They cannot make it too ridiculous, France is a superpower itself. France wasn't given a penalty on the first possible incident. I don't know exactly but it must be about the fifth occasion or so. Then at 2-2 a yellow card was given for dives that wasn't actually a dive. Argentina was given a PK on the first possibility, like at so many matches. You are throwing around insults, also in other threads, but that's a sign there aren't any real valid points. Meanwhile, that racism row is developing fine isn't it? With the Argentine government now saying stuff like that the truth about French football has to be said.
One thing is certain, there was genereally unanimous condemnation for Messi not seeing a second red card vs Holland. That one still has us all scratching. Also 5 penalties whoch were in fasct controversial- so much so it is a complete statistical aberrance - never in history!
Argentina got the PK against Netherlands in the 73rd minute. First possibility? Ok at least it was a soft pen I admit. PK's against Croatia and France were not controversial at all. Both pretty clear cut with Alvarez goalscoring chance prevented by goalkeeper and Di Maria hit from behind in the box. Messi caused the equalizer? Because he lost the ball 60 yards from his own goal and then the other team ended up scoring on that possession... Silly logic. And FIFA rankings are not gospel. Nobody considers Scotland better than Chile right now. NOBODY!
Di Maria was the furthest thing from a pen. Closest thing to that was the Malouda dive in 2006 but at least there was no VAR at the time and the ref did not award a legitimate pen in 2nd half as a result
It’s all good, PuckVanHeel, SayWhatIWant, Kroos46, carlito86, and whomever, enjoy your theories and opinions.
I didn't use the official Fifa rankings. I said the Elo rank of current Chile is behind Scotland. Gamesmanship again? Viveza again? The penalty against Croatia was really not clear-cut. The goalkeeper set himself for a save, stopped moving, and then after Alvarez made his attempt, he ran into the goalkeeper. In no way this is a 100% penalty, and it was again on the first 'possible' that the ball went to the spot for Argentina. The goalkeeper cannot magically dissolve in thin air and he really stopped moving. But Alvarez ran on for a handful meters and it was a PK. If this is a penalty then Walker on Ake in the 47th minute or Rice on Ake are double red cards. But the lemmings and the sponsors get the final they want. In 2004 the European Commission already said explicitly that broadcasters and 'partners' don't want a Portugal vs Greece final. That is economic suicide. They really communicated this, yes.
Livakovic missed the ball and crashed into Alvarez stopping him from almost certainly scoring. That's a pretty clear cut penalty to me. Refs always give a PK if a goalie trips or crashes into a forward that has or is chasing the ball in the box. If FIFA rigged it for Argentina, they wouldn't give France two pens in the Final. I think the Montiel handball shouldn't have been a penalty. He was losing balance and his arm was in a pretty natural motion and not extended out. And his head was even facing away from Mbappe. And even the Muani foul was as soft as the Di Maria one. Both were given for minor contact from behind but that's normal in today's game especially if VAR looks at it. Minor contact always looks like major contact on video review.
This is clearly false, to say it is a 100% penalty. Livakovic stopped moving, set himself for a save. Alvarez crashed into him. Livakovic even moved out of the way a bit (turned his body to soften the blow). Very often the VAR does nothing because it is no clear and obvious error. Again, France itself is a superpower. They cannot make it too ridiculous, even if all the major players involved had already won the World Cup (four years earlier). I am pretty sure Argentina got those penalties at the first or second possibility in all the games. France in the final was clearly, for me, not like this. It was about the fifth chance or so. It's a bit like the Italy semi-final of 2000. It starts to add up and at one point the ignorance stops. It regularly happens the VAR does not intervene because it is not a "clear and obvious error" or serious misjudgement. What is a serious misjudgement though, is handing out yellow cards for dives while there was body-to-body and leg-to-leg contact. Cautions for diving are meant when there is no contact. That are the literal instructions.
clown comes here, calls Argentina's now legendary win as rigged with his single-digit IQ conspiracy theories and hamster-level mental gymnastics with no basis whatsoever and then says "but but there aren't any real valid points", you can't make this up.. and now comes with "they can't make it obvious becaue France is also a superpower". this is truly mental, and he truly believes in his own script, lmaaaooo.. "but but they can't be too ridiculous", lmaooo, are you also hearing voices? You need to go and see a neurologist. I have been to many football forums with a lot of BS, never seen such level of delusion before. What real points do you have clown other than below? "but but penalties" "but but French and Dutch players were sick" "but but Thuram was tripped" "but but organizers, Qatar, Illuminati, CIA, Mossad. Putin, Infantino, Opus Dei, FIFA, UEFA, Conmebol, AFCONm Hollywood etc. all wanted Messi to win".... "but but Messi never had a good game against big teams in the last few years" "but but 5 substitutes favor Argentina" "but but France also superpower, can't make it obvious" what's worse is the he truly believes in his own BS, lmaooo... If you're truly interested in what rigged looks like, below is an example.
Di Maria clearly dived. The Polish penalty was unjustifiable. Not sending of Messi vs Holland is unjustifiable. Consistent low probability decisions that are highly favorable does not necessarily speak to a conspiracy, but to deny whay was going in 2022 is gaslighting of the highets order. Penalties of this volume has NEVER been given in a competition. That alone is disqualifying
It's so easy to expose you in this thread, it's not even fun anymore, you should see a psychiatrist rather than a neurologist as your issues can be resolved with double-strength copium in my view.. "Penalties of this volume has NEVER been given in a competition." Are you sure, clown? 1966 World Cup: Portugal 5 penalties in 5 games 1978 World Cup: Netherlands 5 penalties in 7 games 1984 Euros: Denmark: 3 penalties in 4 games 2021 Euros: Portugal 3 penalties in 4 games Never saw that many losers in a single thread desperately trying to cope either with fake BS or mental gymnastics and now resorting to blatant lies, lmaaooo...
As I said, insults are a good sign they have no credible points. I have points - Argentine vice-presidents corrupted things big time. Maradona said it, Grondona confirmed it. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-24/we-played-socceroos-while-on-drugs-maradona/2728108 https://www.espn.com/general/story?id=6588711&src=desktop&rand=ref~{"ref":"https://www.google.com/"} https://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2023/09/05/64f6f278e2704e544b8b45e2.html They are always in the Excom and committees. We are not. Our only Fifa order of merit (and presidential award) recipient is Cruijff. Long after other great players received it (ones without World Cup exploits!). Uruguay, Hungary, Austria, Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Germany and the whole row have multiple administrators among them. That says a lot. But you can be relieved. 'Historians' will continue to write Argentina merited the 1978 World Cup and will continue to rate our players below yours in all-time lists (the chief of this place @comme with our best goalkeepers, defenders - let alone other positions - below yours and so on; Cruijff below Beckenbauer, MvB below Muller and not in consideration for best ever World Cup or Euros players. All those real historians will continue to do this). Point and observation for this thread remains: Messi wasn't the best any more when he was still playing in Europe. It is unlikely it is now. Also in tournaments you see a marked decline, if you read properly.
You truly need to receive therapy sessions along with seeing a neuro. The guy talks about 2022 WC above and now his response to me calling him out for his BS is bringing stuff from 1978 WC. I am not even using "lmao" now, because I'm truly sorry for you. He truly believes the whole world is against Netherlands and having administrators = corruption as if other nations do not have any administrators.. In his mind, any success by Argentina=automatic corruption because of 1978 & "Argentina has a lot of administrators"..... By the way, I am not even from Argentina and have huge respect & admiration for Netherlands & its players and the Dutch football culture to the extent Netherlands losing to Italy in Euro 2000 semis was one of the saddest days for me as a football fan. Van Basten was one of my all time favorite players growing up and would place him among top-3 best strikers ever. I would place Cruyff as a top-5 along with Messi, Pele, Maradona and Beckenbauer. Bergkamp, Davids, Gullit, Rijkaard, Robben, Overmars etc. are all players I loved watching.
Every post of yours, not only directed to me, is full of insults. Nice all that "respect and admiration" but the result will always be that our best goalkeepers end up behind Fillol and friends, best defenders behind Passarella, Moore and friends (including Ruud Krol) andsoforth. All the way up to the positions where it actually makes sense to rate other nationalities categorically higher (but really not the wingers...). Anyway, this is what macro_football has for Messi, for 'isolated impact' (Robben is #1 in 2014-15...). Admittedly it already shows somewhat of a slight downward consolidation in 2018-19. 2017-18: 18.9 (1st, on par with Rakitic) 2018-19: 15.9 (2nd of Barcelona) 2019-20: 16.0 (Lewandowski was 23.2; Arturo Vidal of Barcelona, also born in 1987, was 15.7) 2020-21: 15.9 2021-22: 11.0 (5th of PSG) 2022-23: 9.5 (6th of PSG) Just as info. It is not automatically in their formula that older players get down. Then people might say: for brief bursts it could still happen. That's right - though no 10.0 ratings in CL any more after november 2019 - but really not for national team against healthy elite teams. In fact, one might well think France in 2018 was his very first game where he truly delivered against an elite side in a major tournament (which I also wrote, personally, back then; for reference, Netherlands 2014 was just a 7.3, Germany 6.7). Sofascore and Champions League: 2014-15: 8.52 2015-16: 8.17 2016-17: 8.23 2017-18: 7.88 2018-19: 8.90 2019-20: 8.01 2020-21: 8.23 2021-22: 7.80 2022-23: 7.93