We are well underway in the Old World football season and the activity on this thread is the lowest I can remember in near 15 years of trolling. It seems like there are fewer "established" Yanks plying their trade outside the country than ever before? And even fewer who weren't raised overseas. Is MLS the only reason?
Well, just look at the guys who came back recently. Bradley, Jozy and Clint. They'd still be in Europe somewhere playing and we'd have threads about them. They were offered more money than they could of made in europe, so they came home. A couple of guys, Agudelo and Shea could of probably made something of themselves over there but didn't make the best club/career choices. I don't think our talent pool has suddenly gone into the toilet as some would have us believe. I also don't think we ever had that many yanks abroad in the first place, so the perception that their has been some drastic reduction in yanks abroad is a false one.
You might try reading the post again. The phrase "drastic reduction" is your hyperbolic invention. I spoke only of historically low activity on this thread and asked whether there were fewer YA than in the past.
Comparatively, there's definitely a substantial drop-off. Shortly before Klinsmann was hired we had Stu, Landon, Clint, JJ, a few keeps in the EPL, Bradley, Dolo, Jozy, EJ, Edu, Boca, Spector, Gringo, Buddle, Fabian, Chandler, Lichaj, Findley, Gooch, Gomez, Kljestan, etc. Now it's heavily just dual nationals. That's due to a combo of MLS strengthening, injuries (many on Klinsmann's watch), and Klinsmann's policy of preferring young players to establish themselves in Europe first before calling them up which ironically keeps them in MLS because their European opportunities are worse without being internationals. Jurgen Klinsmann is poison to the professional careers of the 2nd generation and up American.
Seems like Altidore was the swan song for this forum. Felt like his thread still had traffic even when he was just getting sub minutes and not coming close to scoring. Funnily, Bradley and Dempsey getting big moves (by YA standards) was kind of the beginning of the end. Felt like things would be really heating up around here in the next few years, but instead the total opposite happened.
That's just 3 players. I listed numerous ones above. And Dempsey is 32, so a move to MLS was close to natural, and is by now. There should have been somewhat of a replacement effect with youngish players who also wanted the adventure, to satisfy their curiosities, and have higher upside earning potential-wise. Claudio Reyna's and Brian McBride's careers in Europe and in general didn't last forever in the past either. It's like players getting old should only significantly impact American talent in Europe and in general under Klinsmann. Did kids stop playing football years ago because they know the world is soon going to end, or does Klinsmann just have moronic policies about criteria for caps, training regimens, etc.
Being the optimist that I am, I like to believe we are just in a lull in between age groups at this point. Guys like Dempsey, Bradley and Jones have come back, and guys like Besler, Gonzalez and Zusi could've gone overseas, but MLS has reached a level now where they can keep those players. Hence a downturn in Yanks Abroad. Looking at the future its hard not to get excited though. Players like Pulisic, Zelalem, Hyndman, De La Torre, CCV, Rubin to name a few (there are a lot) are all very talented, and even though some of them may not make it, a few of them will and I expect this thread to see a big uptick in activity when it does happen. Especially if Pulisic breaks through at Dortmund or Zelalem at Arsenal. May be a year or two away, but i think it will happen.
The slowness of the forum is due to the fact that we don't have many players in top leagues in Europe right now, particularly forwards and midfielders, which generate more thread activity. Only Bacon (who's threads have been relatively active) and Johnson (who's been banged up) fit the bill. And they're in the Bundesliga, which never generates the activity that the EPL does. Playing in top European leagues is not the definitive arbiter of talent (see: Bradley and Dempsey), but our talent -- particularly attacking talent -- is way, way down, though many folks don't want to believe it or accept it. Hopefully it's just a lull, and some of our young guns will make the leap.
It's simply a gap in development. Jozy/Clint/Bradley coming back is only one part of it. That we have no young players taking their place quality wise is the other part of the equation. But as our top prospects overseas mature and MLS development improves, there will at some point be more yanks in top leagues. It's how the global market works. Some will stay, some will go.
MLS has risen in quality so players are not making the jump to Europe as often as well as an increase in pay for established NT players. So basically it should look like the MX players abroad. Most are in top leagues if not top teams (PSV/Porto for example). We'll just have to wait for that to happen.
There is a valley, perhaps, in the "mid-career" player, mostly because MLS decided to get generous and "bring home" Bradley, Jozy, Clint, Mix, Edu, Shea, Sasha etc. If MLS had kept their wallet in the pocket, all those guys would have had to figure it out in "europe." But if you look at the "yunguns" - Zelalem, Payne, Rubin, Carter-Vicks, Hyndman, Brooks, Green, Woods... We used to play MLS vs. Euros once upon a time. If we played U-23 domestic (so we can included Morris) vs. Euro, name your teams, there will be a lot of very promising young talent on the Euro side of that game.
It's an unfortunate lull, but times are changing. There's no such thing as a sure thing...but the talent of Pulisic, Zelalem and Akale should lead to first team playing time, soon-ish. Haji and Josh Perez will follow soon, hopefully.
Also, it's mostly ENGLAND where the numbers have gone down. We have more players in Germany than in the past. But the German league is on a lesser TV network, plus, native coverage is in German not English.
The #'s have even gone down in the BL, and dramatically when it comes to players who grew up in the States. This season there are 5 Americans who I believe are active in the BL - Johannsson, Brooks, Chandler, Johnson, Morales; all of them grew up elsewhere. If Gyau ends up playing it would be 6, and 1 U.S. homegrown. In the '10-'11 season there were 7 - Steve Cherundolo, Michael Bradley, Ricardo Clark, Jermaine Jones, DaMarcus Beasley, Danny Williams, and Timothy Chandler; 4 of whom grew up in the States. And overall of course it's a dramatic drop. Mix of Jurgen's immensely flawed and biased player selection policy, plus the increased strength of MLS.
Jurgen's flawed and biased player selection policy has made American players leave Europe? Man, that dude got some mad powerz. I bet he's responsible for the Chinese stock meltdown too! A drop from 7 to 5 is not "dramatic" either (especially since you cherry picked the crap out of your years - you are comparing 10-11 with 15-16. You picked Clark's single full B1 season - where he got 8 starts all season and a season where Bease got 4 sub appearances total. Just silly - and transparent.) The reason for the drop is obvious. MLS has started writing some checks to both keep players and bring others home.
Not leave Europe, but transfer over in the first place. The lack of players transferring there is a bigger cause for the drop off obviously. It was only a few players who came back earlier than normal. And it should be common knowledge by now to fans who pay even the slightest attention to the national team that the manager has significant influence on player's club opportunities in Europe. I provided the examples of Findley and Clark who were featured more by the previous manager than they deserve. As a result they got opportunities with Eintracht Frankfurt and Nottingham Forest, which in turn were also better than they deserve. Highlights the influence of the U.S. national team manager on European club opportunities. Juan Agudelo isn't at Stoke right now because he didn't have the caps for a work permit in England. A couple Serie A clubs were interested in Dillon Powers, for one, but bemoaned they didn't have enough information, i.e.: challenges against players internationally who also ply their trade in Serie A or another comparable league. Work permits in England, non EU limits/homegrown minimums in other major European leagues, and showcases against international competition; you should know those are factors by now. Not blooding any MLS players (besides Alan Gordon, lol) outside of January camp on his watch is the majorly flawed and biased player selection policy self apparently reducing the number. But he understands the system just as poorly as you so he thinks MLS players should and are able to move over to one of the better leagues in Europe whenever they like, provided they are good enough. You're putting words in my mouth. I said the drops in players in the BL who grew up in the States were dramatically down (4 to 0), as well as overall in the better leagues in Europe. It's cherry picking when that's the season before Jurgen got the U.S. job? It would be cherry picking to not use that exact year. I said if Gyau plays he counts too. It's erroneous the claim I was being inconsistent and transparent. Mind you this is all a response to someone who claimed it's just the English numbers that have gone down, but the German numbers are up. I provided objective fact to back up that perception wasn't even true. I acknowledged that as a reason. There can be more than one reason for things, ya know.
A handful of our older players have come home while many our youth NTers are jumping at opportunities overseas. We very well by the WC could see a number of them break through overseas. So is Jurgen then to receive credit for those players going abroad? At best it'd be partial credit. If one chooses to follow the youth ranks, various agents and look into interviews with our youth NTers you'll see a common refrain. They grew up watching the top leagues and big clubs on tv and want to play in Europe. They'll jump at the opportunity. We've got dozens upon dozens of kids from academies through the NCAA taking any trial they can get in Europe to live that dream. That MLS is always here as a safety only helps that. The USSF also helps these kids seek opportunities abroad, as do a number of agencies who specialize in sending kids abroad but it comes down to the kid, his family, his options, his ambition and his quality as a prospect. As for players coming home. Clint wanted to stay at Spurs. He didn't come back because he suddenly wanted Sea. His playing time was in question in a WC year, then MLS threw an enormous check in his face. Bradley also didn't suddenly want to come home. His playing time also was in question in a WC year but even then, he wanted Arsenal. He wanted to play at another big club but in the now quiet Jan window, no big offers came outside loans and TFC threw a fat wad of cash in front of him. Guys like Edu/Kljestan/Parkhurst hit their ceilings overseas. If Jozy made the cut at Sunderland and wasn't deemed a complete failure, he'd likely still be there. Then we have Jurgen helping Shea/Agudelo/Yedlin get Euro moves and has played Zardes enough to get some interest. Agudelo was in a position as a free agent where numerous clubs were after him. Anyone thinking it was somehow Jurgen's responsibility to get Juan more caps for a WP or that Jurgen is somehow a reason for Juan not being in Europe just doesn't have the full picture. Jurgen and Juan together were able to get multiple opportunities abroad. It's not however the NT manager's job to make sure Juan can qualify for only England. Also, based on previous transfers to England Juan seemed like a shoe-in. It was shocking to everyone he didn't qualify. Cameron got his with about 4-5 NT caps to the same club. Somehow guys previously like Robbie Rogers and Tim Ream qualified with fewer caps/potential. Going back in time and revising history is simply that, revising history from a poor understanding of the situation.
It is not as shocking as it was based on Aguedelo's continued inability to move into the top echelon of MLS players on a consistent basis.
I'd say this has been one of the most exciting YA days in a while. Johansson scores (although team loses) Yedlin goes 90' and gets assist in debut Rubin scores off the bench .... And although not a YA, watching Lewandowski's performance against Wolfsburg made this one of the most exciting days of football period.
^ plus Villa-Brum/Fulham-Stoke/Reading-Eve matches all had the Yanks in action on Tues night. Only Timmy got rested.
We may be in for a continued drought. All i can ponder is what might have been if Dempsey,Bradley and Jozy were still in Europe. It'd make for more enjoyable weekend mornings for me.
Parkhurst was pretty good in Denmark but only got a move to a relegation fodder Bundesliga side and only had 2 matches. INJURIES (they really curse our boys) Im surprised Kljestan returned to MLS. He started for the best team in Belgium. Could have easily moved on to Italy or France but his wife is a supermodel so maybe she wantes NYC. Im surprised Edu never went back to Turkey or transferred to Ligue 1, he had admirers for sure. But i am disappointed in seeing very few Yanks in England. Especially goalscorers. Maybe i was spoiled by McBride and Dempsey for years.
Where's the evidence that Klinsmann helped him at all? In fact, Klinsmann didn't even call him in to the NT right around the time of his work permit hearing, probably giving further indication to that panel that he wasn't in the plans of the NT. I won't go much further in depth than this in this forum because I've been told by a mod to keep the anti-Klinsmann bias out of YA, but I don't think this is a case where much help was given by the NT coach, although I do think he helps players in a lot of circumstances.