Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by lurking, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmmmm.

    Lots of interersting and intelligent stuff here.

    Excellent post by JazzyJ. The only thing I might add to that is *if* we are going to have reserve squads next season, perhaps we could persuade Agoos and or Dayak to coach the reserves?

    I'm still bent on getting one or both of them to retire. Not that I don't like them, but that's a lot of salary on players who are not likely to play a full season.

    Roblar's lineups are creative and clever.

    I might go with:

    - - - - - - ONstad
    Roner - Waibel - Robinson - Dunivant
    - - - - - - Dombrowski
    Mullan - Mulrooney - Russell
    - - - - - Levesque - Ching

    I'm assuming that we lose: Agoos, Dayak, Ekelund, Corrales, and Donovan.

    Of course, that would give us at least a couple of allocations, so maybe we could score a starting player or two from elsewhere.

    I don't know about a 3-5-2. Our defenders aren't really fast enough for that unless you played:

    Roner - Robinson - Dunivant

    While Dunivant wouldn't get forward much in a 3-5-2, his long throwins would be a huge help. And he's still faster than most of our defenders.

    LONG LIVE THE QUAKES!!

    - Mark
     
  2. tedwar

    tedwar Member

    Jun 24, 1999
    Richmond, CA-EastBay
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think there aren't going to be 'reserve squads' next year per se, the rosters are going up to 28.

    Is Wade Barrett out of contract? Isn't he making a lot of money over there? I'm asking.

    There are just so many questions. Is Ekelund going to be around? Are Alvarez, Levesque, and Dombrowski ready?

    And even more so, is a head coach who apparently almost didn't come back for a second season ready to play those three for regular minutes for a franchise that, I believe its fair to say, is going to have some urgency to win.

    If you are FC Dallas and you have this new stadium and new name and you know the franchise will be around, MAYBE you can play younger players to let them develop.

    I'm not sure Kinnear has that luxury, altho that's what the franchise needs, in the immediate post-Donovan phase, is to see if these guys can play. Take some lumps early in the year, let them work into the system.

    Tony
     
  3. Aquari

    Aquari New Member

    Jul 5, 2004
    Great insights guys!

    I am still recuperating from the Jamil Walker shock :( If we lose DeRo (not sure yet), and Landon, and now that Chris Brown is also gone, we NEED another forward to back-up Chingy. I was hoping it would be a Walker-Ching partnership pre-draft or Chingy-DeRo.

    Now, we're looking really thin in this department and this is where we were really shaky the past season towards the end.
     
  4. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aquari -

    I also am bummed that we lost Jamil, and for the same reasons.

    This is what I think.

    Big target guys like Ching and Levesque are hard to come by. We have two. Now what we need are speedy crafty guys like Landon, DeRo, and Walker. We have none really. Alvarez and Mullan will both play in midfield for us. So I'm betting that Dom and JD already have their sights set on a couple of speedy guys in the A or college. They are likely expecting to get an allocation or two to cover the departed LD and maybe Agoos, or Dayak, or DeRo, or Ekelund.

    But we're also going to be thin in midfield, as we lost Chris Brown and stand to lose Ekelund (it's time for the mighty Dane to retire) and maybe Corrales (I can see us trading Ramiro to CD Chivas. Though honestly, Ramiro is better in central midfield than on the wing, so it would be OK with me if we kept him. (Oooo! What a snotty fan! It would be OK with me if we kept him! What hubris!)

    And we may well lose one or both of Agoos and Dayak to retirement.

    So we need to get a speedy forward or three. Any that don't stick up front can be converted to wing middies. FY and DK have done that before. And we're going to need some speedy outside defenders. As others have observed, we have plenty of central defenders.

    We're set at GK too! With ONstad, Conway, and Cronin we are in good shape there.

    I'd still like to see Agoos replace JD as assistant coach. Maybe we can have two assistants?

    LONG LIVE THE QUAKES!!

    - Mark
     
  5. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    While early, I'd throw out Jamie Watson's name as a striker to look at in the upcoming draft. He's not big or REAL fast, but he battles for every ball and LOVES to shoot (something that drove us nuts about Donovan). Rumor has it that he's going P-40 for sure this season. He'd fit our style to a "T" and become our young version of DeRo (with more passing).

    Also, Corey Woolfolk as done well in the A-League. Decent size and LOTS of speed. Perhaps it's time to bring him back for a tryout? Please, NO Chris Carrieri tryouts.....
     
  6. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    So knowing a little more about who will be with the team this year (and assuming for now LD is gone but still hoping), and sticking to my "good team guys / speed / varied attack / depth" strategy, and assuming (just for now) just about everyone else currently on the roster stays, I'd like to see something along the lines of:

    --------------Ching/Levesque -- Dero/Alvarez/SpeedyForwardGuy ----------
    SpeedyLeftWingGuy/Russell ----------------------------------- Mullan/Hart?
    ------------SpeedyAttackingMidGuy/Eke---Mulrooney/Tighe---------------
    Duni--Robinson/Cochrane/Agoos--Waibel/Dayak-SpeedyOutsideBackGuy/Roner
    ---------------------------Con/Cron/On-----------------------------------

    The idea is to add some speedy guys to the team with some acquisitions (I'm with markmcf8 on this one), and to stack up players at each position, subbing often and early to get a lot of people involved. Obviously you wouldn't sub out every position, but you could have positions that you regularly platoon, like the SpeedyAttackingMidGuy/Eke or SpeedyLeftWingGuy/Russell positions. There are some guys, like Mulrooney and Mullan that you'd probably want on the field as much as possible. But another aspect of the "stack" strategy is that you could try to keep people in the same position / role as much as possible. So if, for example, DeRo is injured, Alvarez goes in. This is in contrast to the more typical "play the best 11 no matter how much we have to move people around" strategy.

    Not quite sure what to do with Ramiro. Seems like he plays best in the Mulrooney role, so maybe he's in that rotation somehow. Some spots will open up as the inevitable injuries start to happen.

    In terms of "varied attack" at forward there'd be target guys (Ching/Levesque), tricky guys (Dero/Alvarez), and then one new SpeedyForwardGuy, who could pair up with a target guy (Ching or Levesque) or a tricky guy (Dero or Alvarez). Also, a new SpeedyAttackingMidGuy who could maybe platoon with Eke (a little change of pace to throw at 'em :)).

    On defense, a new SpeedyOutsideBackGuy to share right outside back with Roner. There's still a logjam at center back, so there might have to be some minor restructuring there (could probably sacrifice one center back guy for one more outside back guy).

    I agree with tedwar that Dom may be even more reluctant to sub early and often this year given the pressure to win. But I think if he went with this approach it might pay off even within this one year. They'd probably stumble at first, but by the end of the year things might turn around and they might go on an upswing. You'd have a lot of guys who are seeing regular action, more fresh bodies, and hopefully a lot of people contributing, including some more younger guys.
     
  7. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca

    I think I read that his contract ends in '05. I don't think he is making substancially more then what he COULD earn in MLS. I think it just boils down to the fact that he wanted to "try it" and see what Europe's like. Perhaps he's happy there or perhaps he's ready to come back to the US (he was fringe NATS material when he was here). As much as I like Dunivant, Barrett is a better left back and can also play other positions pretty well.
     
  8. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't know if I want him as a starter, but outside the first 11 he is the most important player because he can be used in every position in Spartan Stadium outside of announcer (hmmmm.... maybe...).
     
  9. Jay Hipps

    Jay Hipps Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Northern California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing about Wade -- if he's playing in Europe and can continue to do so, he's being paid in Euros right now. The Euro is up 30+ percent on the dollar in recent years and the cost of living in San Jose is likely higher than where he's playing, so he'd be taking a pretty significant pay cut to come back.

    If he's available, though, I'd agree that it's at least worth talking to him.
     
  10. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    I am out of contract...
     
  11. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really?! You're out of contract? Surely they'll want you back? I hope they don't want you to take a pay cut! I mean, I know that Spartan Shops isn't giving the Quakes a good deal to play there, but really!

    Good luck to you!

    LONG LIVE THE QUAKES!!

    - Mark
     
  12. Defender

    Defender Member

    Joe's Plumbing 86ers
    Feb 16, 2001
    San Francisco CA
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's too early to make any predictions because of the number of unknowns. Players out of contract (DeRosario, Corrales), in addition to who will be healthy (Robinson, Roner, Dayak, Agoos), draft picks and the the possibility of trades.

    Current players to watch: Alvarez, Levesque, Dombrowski, Roner, and perhaps Conway/Cronin.
     
  13. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think a lot of you guys are giving up on Pwamme way too fast. He's never had the chance to be the marquee player - was always in the shadow of LD - and I think Dominic needs to give him the chance now. I'd like to see him signed for a significant increase with the understanding that now that he's the man, he'd better produce. I believe he has the potential to step up to the challenge and be a real star for the earthquakes, he's just never gotten the consistent playing time.

    Regarding Wade - if he comes back to the US, I think we'd be crazy not to grab him in a New York minute!

    Also - I don't know why people are worried about the GK spot. It seems to me that we are pretty strong in that category; I'm more concerned about the 10 guys in front of the goal!!!
     
  14. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here, here!

    I would like to see DeRo come back, I just don't expect it. I don't expect MLS or AEG to spend one more nickle on our club than they absolutely have to. While I hope for a cool allocation to replace the dearly departed Landon, I more than half expect them to give us Paco Uribe. If I were Kinnear or gAlexi, I'd beg MLS to resign DeRo for us. I'd plead hardship, we just lost Landon and X is going to retire. (Maybe two X's.) But I see MLS selling DeRo to the highest bidder and giving us some Belgian Second Division guy instead. ;)

    I'd love to get Wade back!! But I bet he goes to F_CK Dallass and we get a high school kid from Omaha who wets himself everytime he has to suit up.

    Sorry, I'm just not expecting much.

    LONG LIVE THE QUAKES!!

    - Mark
     
  15. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is the current roster:

    Goalkeeper

    Jon Conway
    Steve Cronin
    Pat Onstad

    Summary: Good mixture of experience and youth, nice depth, and good enough talent.

    Defenders

    Jeff Agoos
    Ryan Cochrane
    Troy Dayak
    Todd Dunivant
    Eddie Robinson
    Chris Roner
    Craig Waibel
    Wes Hart

    Summary: Good mixture of experience and youth, nice depth, and good enough talent. Health is the biggest issue. Also, Craig is not a true right back and Todd is a question mark at left back. We be nice to add outside back on either side, but the MLS lacks quality outside backs. Anyone remember Wade Barret?

    Midfield

    Ramiro Corrales (out of contract)
    Tighe Dombrowski
    Richard Mulooney
    Ian Russell
    Arturo Alvarez
    Brian Mullan

    Summary: Big Unknown. Good year defensively, but poor year offensively as a unit. Richard and Brian are solid players and fit in with the "team" philosophy of the Quakes. Ramiro is better as a defensive midfielder. He is NOT an outside defender or midfielder (at least a starter). Arturo and Tighe are unproven and Russell is no longer a factor in this league. Need to add several players (left midfield and central midfield, along with experience depth).

    Forwards

    Brian Ching
    DeRo (out of contract)
    Roger Levesque
    Summary: No Donovan. Will Brian continue to produce with Landon. DeRo has never been a full time starter. His passing in average and will not provide enough for Ching. Can he produce full time? Roger who? If DeRo leaves, this will be our biggest problem. Even if he stays, there needs to be additional depth and experience.

    Bottom Line: Sign DeRo. Find a central midfielder or use Arturo who can distribute to the fowards and can provide some goals (Note: Every team is looking for this player.). Add a creative player at left midfield and add a forward to replace Walker. If DeRo leaves, the vacuum is going to be too great to fill this year.
     
  16. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    A lot of what we're doing here is based on the supposition that Dom is as tied to the traditional 4-4-2 as FY was. But I think during the season we saw that Dom was willing to tinker with the formation when the need arose. This may be another one of those times.

    What would anyone think of a 4-3-3 type alignment, using Ching as a true striker, Mullan and DeRosario (or Alvarez if necessary) as front-line wingers either to run diagonally at defenders or take defenders down the wings, a midfield alignment with an attacker, a holder, and a defender, then a traditional backline?

    That would mean we'd have to find a holding type midfielder instead of a front-runner to go alongside Ching.

    Discuss.
     
  17. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent point. There needs to be a change.

    To me, you need a solid defense for this formation, especially in the center of the pitch. With age and health an issue, this may not work out.

    However, where would Richard play? He is not a central holding midfield. He could play the right side. Are you thinking of this:

    DeRo - Ching - Mullan
    Alvarez - ? - Mulrooney
    Dunivant-Cochrane/Agoos-Robinson/Dayak-Waibel
    Onstad
     
  18. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    Something like that. Mulrooney would have to be the defending midfielder.

    Though I prefer a sniper to a speed merchant in the attacking midfielder spot. And that "question mark" sticks out like a big fat donut hole in the holding midfield spot.
     
  19. Roblar

    Roblar Member+

    Sep 15, 2000
    The 73072
    RE: Spartacus' 4-3-3 suggestion
    I disagree. Richard, in fact, is an ideal central midfielder in this role. I'm not sure it's our best line-up, but I think we could get a decent performance out of this:

    ---------------Ching
    ---------DeRo-------Alvarez
    -----Russell--Mulrooney--Mullan
    Dunni--'Goos/Robi--Coch/Day--Wai/Ron/Har
    ---------ON/cON/crON

    1) Ching is our target, DeRo pounces on slop, Alvarez creates offense. Ching and Alvarez apply pressure to D, DeRo actually has a small defensive role.

    2) Alvarez will actually play more centrally - just behind Ching. This opens up the space on the right wing for Mullan to run into (and serve to Ching/DeRo/Alvarez).

    3) Russell plays primarily in a defensive role. Use multiple switches with other players -- especially Dunni overlapping and crossing in, while Russell stays home. When Richard moves up, Russell stays home.

    4) Don't underestimate Mullan's D! He hustles like no tomorrow, and that will still be his job.

    5) Mulrooney is our pivot player - our hub. When he gets the ball, the team has to move to give him options (the risk with this lineup is that if we don't move well off the ball we'll be slaughtered - IMO). When he gets the ball, we need two defenders (one central, one wide depending on the side of the field), Russell, Mullan, and Alvarez to show for him - give him options.

    The success of the attack will depend on how well he can avoid playing back to the D --- how well Russell, Alvarez, and Mullan show for him. ?????????If Mulrooney doesn't have time, we will end up playing long ball. Ball to Mulrooney, to D, up over the top (probably to the other team - here they come again! :( )

    Personally, if the other guys get open, I think Mulrooney could pull the strings well here.

    6) This post is already too long - the D will be about the same as last year: not the best, not the worst.
     
  20. The Wee Man

    The Wee Man New Member

    Jul 11, 2003
    San Jose
    My two cents for what it is worth.
    I think we are only four players short of a championship winning squad in 2005

    If we can get Clint Mathis we should get him ASAP.

    We need to acquire by trades or draft (a longer shot) the following three players:
    Starting quality, attacking Right Back
    Starting quality, attacking Left Back
    Starting quality, attacking, creative Midfielder

    Todd Dunnivant could be an outstanding wide left midfield player in the league and he should be working on that starting now. He played that position most of his life but has to refocus and if he does so he has the tools to become a great player at any level.

    If we could accomplish all of the above we would be the team to watch. It is hard to put a starting line-up together because you don’t know who we will lose in trades but if we can accomplish the above this would be my line-up

    Onstad (Conway)

    New player, Agoos, Cochrane, New player (Waibel) (Roner) (Robinson) (Dayak)

    Mullan, Mullrooney, New Player, Dunnivant (Alvarez) (Coralles) (new top Draft choice)

    Mathis, Ching, (De Rosario)

    This would be a great attacking team that would play Earthquake style soccer with some very experienced backup players fighting for positions and giving us cover when injuries come. There are players who are in our squad but are not mentioned and they will round out the squad but when you bring guys in they should be guys that are good enough to be your top five players or you don’t need them. That is the only way to improve your squad. The set-up listed above includes seven reserves all of whom played significant roles and starting roles in a Championship winning side. This could be the strongest squad in MLS.

    With a possible reserve system coming up the draft is very important as youngsters have more chance to get games and exposure than ever before. We may get some surprise bonuses when kids become part of a great experienced, attacking, team minded squad.
    Competition to get into the line-up would be fierce.
     
  21. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh my God, this guy seems to know something about the game. Just who is this Wee Man? ;)
     
  22. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like the 4-3-3 would be best, considering what our personnel status is right now. Let's wait until after our allocation (and I'm against spending it on Clint Mathis, by the way) and the draft to map out any kind of technical or tactical strategies.

    Other than that, I like the concept of it. Just some minor details to work out...
     
  23. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent post, Johnny... rep due and coming for that. :)

    However, as much as I have always valued your opinions, I have to beg to differ with you on the Mathis element of the equation.

    When he's on, both mentally and physically, there are fewer American players who are more impressive and dynamic on the field than Clint Mathis.

    Problem is, that it's all up to him. He tends to wear out his welcome after making an immediate impact, or some time after that, and if we're going to use a valuable allocation on a player, I'd like to know that the player is going to be a reliable asset.

    Much of the same has happened with Mathis at Hannover 96 right now. After doing well at the start of his tour of duty there about a year ago, he's struggling to get a game right now, or even a shot on the subs' bench. Granted that much of that is due to a coaching change there-- and the fact that he's not seeing eye-to-eye with the current coach-- but there seems to be a recurring pattern with him and the way that he approaches his play.

    Clint Mathis is an enigmatic element, at best. I'm not sold or convinced on whether he'd be the best option for our allocation right now.
     
  24. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know someone who would like to keep Mathis in line! ;)
     
  25. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Thanks for the post, Wee Man. I agree with most of your assessment.

    I'm also sceptical of Mathis. Not as much about his temperment, but more on his workrate. The one advantage that we seem to have is our ability to "high pressure" our opponents all over the pitch. Mathis isn't interested in playing like that. Also, he hasn't been a winner with any team he's played on. That doesn't make him a poor player, but you begin to wonder if his contributions don't come at a negative price.

    With Corrales gone, it's time to pick up the phone and find out what price it would take to bring Wade Barrett back to SJ (call his agent, Alexi!). Moving Dunnivant up and playing Wade behind him would give us the best "left" side in all of MLS. That's a team that could really attack AND defend. It would also give Wade a chance to get back on the National Team rader. The left back is STILL not settled.
     

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