Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by lurking, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Feb 26, 1999
    San Francisco
    So when you and hobbes said "first division", you meant League 1, not the Championship?
     
  2. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what the solution is, but I'm not sure it's personel-related (although there are bound to be changes due to Landon, DeRo, and the expansion draft). Last years' team had a level of intensity that was unmatched in the league. They had great skill and team play, but the thing that won them the championship was their focus and heart. They always had the intensity when they needed it.

    This years team had the same skill and team play, but they couldn't seem to sustain it when they needed to. There were too many games this year where they played as well as, or better than, their opponent for long stretches of the match only to lose (or draw) because of one or two moments of let-down. I felt that the loss to KC last week was a bit like that. They were outplayed, but 1-0 would have been a result more reflective of the level of competition throughout the match.

    This lack of focus (edge, spark... whatever you want to call it) could be attributed to any number of things. My guess is that it is a combination of the following:

    1. Uncertainty over the situation in San Jose

    2. Complacency after winning two cups in three years.

    3. Lack of intensity from Kinnear.

    Be interested in hearing what other folks think of this. If you agree that the spark is missing, what other factors might be involved?
     
  3. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What, exactly, do you mean by this? Not asking to be confrontational. Just trying to see where you're coming from with this.
     
  4. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just mean that I suspect Kinnear didn't do as much to instill sense of urgency in his players as FY did. I have no direct evidence of this... I'm just guessing that it may be part of the problem.
     
  5. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't really believe that's the case. I just really don't. From what I know of Dom, I just can't see that being true.
     
  6. hobbes

    hobbes Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    regina, saskatchewan
    Yeah I meant the Coca-Cola Championship, not League 1. I'm still living in the past and have trouble calling the old, old third division 'League 1'. Pretty soon non-league will be called 'Division 1'.

    I don't know if England really suits DeRo's style, but I was thinking of comparable levels and I'm sure he's better than some of the Canadians who are sought after in the Coca-Cola Championship.

    cheers,
    hobbes
     
  7. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I only attended one training session this year, and only for an hour or two. But what I saw was Dom doing everything: he's running drills, he's yelling encouragement and instructions, he's playfully messing around with guys names ("attaway Dombrowski Splikowski"), etc. He's simultaneously teaching, encouraging, and occasionally keeping things light. I saw Doyle there but didn't see him do much of anything. He was on the other side of the field but I didn't even hear him say anything. The only thing I heard him say was a "field goal" joke when Ramiro hit one into the trees. After a scrimmage Dom ran a finishing drill with some offensive players and GK's and the defensive players just kind of sat around. Then everyone pretty much left (except for Dombroski and Levesque, who stayed to kick the ball around).

    It's unfair to make any conclusions based on that little sample, but if I could, I'd say that Dom could probably use a more active, involved assistant coach. And he probably needs to learn to delegate more but this is just a natural process when people are initially put in positions of leadership. It takes some time to make the transition from totally hands-on coach to someone who can delegate more and concentrate on the big picture.

    People will say that Dom's too friendly with the players, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. They all seem to like him and respect him. I'm sure they all want to play well for him. I think it's only a problem if they don't respect him, or he's afraid to make a decision based on a friendship. I don't think that's the case.

    And I'm skeptical of the "didn't instill a sense of urgency" theory. But I don't have any evidence to back that up either.
     
  8. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On game day, when it really counts, when the game is being played, there's no way anyone could possibly say Dom needs more intensity. He's probably the most intense Quake on the field.
     
  9. BlueMeanie

    BlueMeanie New Member

    Apr 1, 2002
    EastSIIIIDE
    I can't find the thread, but someone mentioned the Earthquakes employees are going to be met with to discuss the team's future early next week. Is this a rumor, or can someone confirm this?

    Having been through a few mergers/acquisitions/layoffs, it's always a scary thing when there's a general meeting with employees to announce future corporate plans. If things were going to remain status quo, no meeting is necessary.
     
  10. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't really think there is such a thing as status quo with this organization. And even if things were, a meeting to inform all of what's happening is important. If you ever worked for a start up, or heck any company, in times of uncertainty, those meetings are pretty typical. There could be two reasons - good news (rally the troops kinda thing) or bad news (I don't want to think of this type of thing).
     
  11. BlueMeanie

    BlueMeanie New Member

    Apr 1, 2002
    EastSIIIIDE
    Yeah, I've worked at a startup as well as medium and large companies. You're right, in that all-hands meetings are typical (monthly or so in large and medium companies, more often in small companies), but this isn't the type of subject usually introduced at those types of meetings.

    Like I said, I've been at a few places where changes were going to occur, and every time there was a one-off all-employee meeting, usually offsite, to explain upcoming changes (whether "change" = re-org, merger, acquisition, layoff).

    Hopefully it's a rally the troops kind of thing, as you posted.
     
  12. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ridge Mahoney reported that they are expecting to inform the staff on upcoming plans next week.

    I agree with SJQF, there is no status quo. It's November 6 and still no season ticket offers.

    They have no tickets to sell, and no plans for next year have been announced. At some point they have to be told to start working on selling season tickets and sponsorships, etc., or they have to be told good luck finding a new job. Either way they need a meeting.
     
  13. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    This thread has taken a few twists and turns because so many things were unsettled. But now we know there's going to be a team here in 2005, and Dom and Doyle are going to be coaching. So that leaves all the uncertainty around the players. I've been thinking about what the Quakes can do to avoid another mediocre season. It's tough because there's so much parity in the league, and there's a good chance they will lose some of their best players, including, of course, Donovan. But there might be some things they can do strategically to get an edge. "If I were king", here's what I'd do:

    - Team players. Continue to get only guys who are going to be good team players, committed to the team concept. Even if you have to pass up some really talented players now and then because they might be suspect in this area, it's probably not worth getting them over the long run. I think this has helped the Quakes the last couple of years, even this year, when the results would have probably been even worse if the team didn't stick together.

    - Speed. OK, this is a personal preference. I'm a speed freak. But with Donovan the Quakes have maybe average speed overall. Without him they're slow. I think the only guys left with good speed would be Russell, Mullan, and Walker. And the jury is still out on Walker as to whether he will be develop into a good player in the league. Russell is fast but hasn't scored in a couple of years (has he?). And not to mention the back line. The team just needs more speed everywhere. A speedy attacking mid with ball skills like Donovan (assuming he's not back maybe someone like him - yeah, right), and a speedy left mid would be top priorities.

    - Varied attack. The team needs to be good at scoring in different ways. With Ching they've got a guy they can cross to from the air. But again, without Donovan they're lacking breakaway speed. And they also didn't seem to score much this year using "waves" of vertical attackers in the way that I've seen other teams like DC and the Metrostars attacking. So this gets back to the need for some more speed for a breakaway threat, and maybe a speedy attacking midfielder with ball skills to slice in from midfield and create vertical attacking waves.

    - Depth. I think you can get an edge by having a team with a lot of depth, and by subbing a lot and early (yeah, this would be a significant coaching strategy change for Dom). The idea is that you bring in fresh bodies to wear down the other team, especially if you have some speed to work with. So you might have to sacrifice having one or two big stars in order to stack a couple of good but not great players at several positions. The other advantage to this is that you get lots of people playing, and when players go down due to injuries you don't have a big dropoff. This also allows you to develop some younger players faster and gets more people actively involved. Much easier to really sell the "team" concept this way.
     
  14. tedwar

    tedwar Member

    Jun 24, 1999
    Richmond, CA-EastBay
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting post Jazzy. Lots of good points in there.

    Obviously, we have to see how the expansion draft goes, but that disclaimer, here goes.

    I don't think a backline of Roner-Cochrane-Robinson-Dunivant is necessarily slower than any other backline in MLS. Less experienced, yeah, but if given time together, they could become an effective unit.

    It's not speed, per se, but quickness. Unless Kinnear is changing the offense to long balls over the defense for Walker to run on to (I am NOT advocating this), speed in the open field isn't as relevant (I think) as speed of thought, first touch, and positioning. Ekelund can't run 40 yards in 4 seconds, but his mind/feet work so fast with the ball. I will say that its good to have fast wingers and outside defenders.


    Tony
     
  15. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Yeah, I would agree that a Roner-Cochrane-Robinson-Dunivant back line is not really slow, but it would be the fastest one the Quakes could possibly field, and it might not be the best one overall. The Quakes are a bit heavy on center backs right now. They've got Dayak, Goos, Cochrane, Robinson, and Waibel, all of whom are natural center backs. Then on the outside there's Dunivant, Roner, and Hart, and I'm not sure that back of any kind is necessarily the natural position for Roner and Hart. So they could use one or maybe two more speedy guys to play outside back, probably at the expense of someone in the middle.

    Yeah, maybe it's not absolute raw speed that you want. Walker may have it, but seems to be somewhat out of control when he runs. His body seems to be kind of leaning forward and not in a good position to get a good touch. Maybe it's quickness as you say. But to me you also need someone who can accelerate. Someone who can beat a defender to a through ball the way Donovan can. Without him I don't know if they have anyone at forward or attacking mid who can do that. I love watching Ekelund play for his touch, passing skills and his decision-making. But he doesn't seem like the type of player to slice through the midfield with speed to really pressure the defense. And then on defense his lack of speed will hurt at times because he won't be able to beat people to 50/50 balls. As I mentioned, though, speed / acceleration is just sort of a personal preference of mine, so it depends on what style of play you like to see.
     
  16. bluejaded

    bluejaded New Member

    Jan 26, 2004
    Good point--that's how Agoos remained so effective despite not being the speediest player on the pitch, and various other injuries.
     
  17. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I found this in the youth soccer forum re: the U20 national team playing in the Nike friendlies - forgot about Arturo Alvarez playing on the U20s. Seems he's a starter - also wearing the No. 10. Copied this paragraph from a write-up about the game at Top Drawer Soccer:

    "The US attack also sputtered with Adu, starting the match a left midfield, struggling to get into the match and get touches. Most of the play came down the right through Szetela , San Jose Earthquake Auturo Alvarez and U20 newcomer Marvell Wynne from UCLA. However the US broke through in minute 45 when Alvarez received a throw-in deep in the Honduran half and fought through several Honduran defenders before bundling the ball over to Zimmerman at the top of the 18 yard box. Zimmerman alertly took a few touches into the area and fired a low shot to beat oncoming Honduran Keeper Arzu Yull to the left and put the US up 1-0 just before the end of the half."

    I sincerely hope Dom gives Arturo a chance to play in 2005 and hope he steps up to the challenge. Curious though, reading this report, does it sound like Arturo was playing on the right - or they just happened to shift over there at times? Perhaps he was in the middle of the field?

    Also, in further reading the thread, seems Arturo was named Captain. That's pretty good.
     
  18. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Arturo should have more of a chance this year. Too much space has been opened up in the roster in front of him at this point.
     
  19. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Quakes currently have two SI's on their roster - Dwayne DeRosario and Ronnie Ekelund (Pat Onstad has a green card, so he doesn't cound as an SI).

    With each MLS team now allowed a maximum of four SI's, the Quakes have two SI slots to fill should they choose to.

    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  20. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I'm not sure where he played this game, but he plays many positions for the national team, including forward and center midfield (where I really want to see him given a chance).
     
  21. Roblar

    Roblar Member+

    Sep 15, 2000
    The 73072
    Well, we know:
    Coaches: Dom and Doyle
    Gone: Brown and Walker

    And it's likely that:
    LD goes to Germany.

    Plus, there is speculation about:
    DeRo trying it out in the UK (this thread)
    Corrales heading to Mexico (in Yanks Abroad I think)

    If we do lose LD, DeRo, and Corrales, we will really have trouble filling out the top of the lineup. I think we'll have a strength in D (five central defenders, one left back, and two tweeners who could also play mid if needed), but... our offese will be really thin!

    I keep thinking that a trade for some offense would make sense, but 1) I can't think of any realistically acquirable player who would help us out (Simutenkov? wasn't he exposed...therefore potentially available?), and 2) unless we trade away our future (our young D: Robinson, Cochrane, Dunni, ...Waibel) who would give us something for our older players?

    I'm not willing to give up the young guys, so... I don't see a trade happening. And I don't see anyone from the draft being able to make an immediate impact on attack (I have no idea about college players).

    ................ :confused:

    Given our roster, should we plan on playing a 3-5-2?
     
  22. Roblar

    Roblar Member+

    Sep 15, 2000
    The 73072
    Sort of like this? (Assuming no LD, DeRo, or Corr)

    -------Ching--Levesque
    ----------Alvarez
    ?(Russell/Tighe)?-----Mullan
    ----------Mulrooney
    Dunni--(Agoos/Dayak)--(Robinson/Cochrane)--(Waibel/Hart/Roner)
    --------(ON/CON/CRON)
     
  23. Roblar

    Roblar Member+

    Sep 15, 2000
    The 73072
    Assuming a worst case scenario where we lose all of LD, DeRo, Corrales, (and Agoos and Dayak to retirement), I keep thinking that our roster (though perhaps not our players) are suited to a 3-5-2 right now. I think we could put out a really exciting "young" team: (Note to spejic: calm down, I'll let you replace Tighe with Russell and Eke with Tighe... ;) )

    ----Ching--Levesque
    ---------Alvarez
    ----Tighe--------Mullan
    ------Eke--Mulrooney
    Waibel--Robinson--Cochrane
    ------ON/CON/CRON

    (Notes: the way it looks, it really is more of a 3-4-3 isn't it. ...Replace Robinson with Dayak, and I think we would have the MLS All-Thug D!)

    This, of course, comes at a cost: Dunnivant is on the bench. I just don't know if I'm comfy with him as the left sided D in a back 3. I would almost rather see him as a mid-fielder.

    The neat thing is that if we were tied or needed a goal, we could bring Dunni on for one of the central defenders and improve our offense. And if we were ahead, we could bring Dunni on for one of the forwards or Alvarez and go to a back four - but not a bunker back four, an attacking back four.

    ...still, I'm so used to a 4-4-2 that I just don't see it. Perhaps the line-up above (previous post) is better. It will be interesting to see how the line-ups look next spring!
     
  24. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    We're gonna have a great team next year!

    ----Ching X
    Ramiro Mulrooney Ekelund Mullan
    Dunivant Cochrane Robinson Waibul
    --------Onstad

    With Agoos, Dayak, Russell, Alvarez, Levesque, Hart, Conway, Dombrowski, Roner fighting for playing time.

    This is assuming we lose both Donovan and De Ro, which we may not. If we DO lose one or more, we'll get high-value allocations to replace them at forward with, and we have multiple SI spots open.

    AND, unless I'm mistaken, we have the #4 pick in the draft which will be very valuable if we get another player like Cochrane (#5 pick).

    Should be a very exciting team, as good as ever.
     
  25. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    If we lose Corrales, Agoos and Dayak, is there any chance we could lure Wade Barrett back to MLS? He was very good in the center when we needed to play him there due to injuries. He could also fill in at left mid, and even D-mid if needed.
     

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