Where are the signings? Is it b/c of Blanco?

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by snkscore, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    When we signed Blanco for a ton of $$ I was concerned that it would impact our ability to spend money on other players. I know that only 400 of it counts toward the salary cap, but as far as I know the fire is still losing money, so when it comes time to sign a new player it isn't like they are deciding how much of their profit to reinvest back into the club. They are deciding how much more they want to go in debt.

    With 2+ Million going to Blanco every year, I was very worried that other positions that we might have spent 250k on, we would instead be looking for 100k and less.

    So when we started freeing up cap space like crazy the last few months, I had 2 thoughts.

    1) The fire is looking to sign some big name player(s) with this money to really make a run at being in the top of the MLS

    2) They have overspent on Blanco, and need to cut costs.

    Now I know Blanco has increased fan attendance, and I am guessing that him being on the team had some influence on the Best Buy agreement, but I don't think you can look at Blanco's contract and call it a unqualified success, in terms of the financials in the same way that you could with Rolf, Conde, Pickens, and even Barrett at 40k/year.

    The fire could easliy dispel my concerns if they did end up signing a bunch of top players before the season starts, but it is concerning to look around the MLS at all the action going on and all the trades/signings etc, and here on the Chicago front.... nothing.

    My season tickets are purchased, but I hope they don't just limp into this year hoping to rely on the Blanco to Barrett combo and expect Conde to pick up all the slack the back.
     
  2. salparadisejr

    salparadisejr Member

    Jul 26, 2006
    Hollywood, FL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without Blanco we would have averaged 12k attendance for the full year instead of just the 1st half, we'd be without a 3.5-5 million/yr jersey deal, and we would probably have sold a 1/3rd less in jersey sales.

    So I don't think people are reaching when they say financially the Blanco signing was a grand slam.

    There's a lull in signings because up until now this was another "Guppy Offseason". Having now gotten a real GM and staff in place, I'm sure the signings and trades will start to happen soon.
     
  3. vponce75

    vponce75 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 16, 2004
    SoCal
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless there has been some recent news I missed I believe the Fire are one of the league's profitable teams (I'm sure there some fuzzy math involved but definitely near or at break even). Also, I think you are way off on Blanco not being an unqualified sucess. IMO, he has been a HUGE success in the box office, jersey sales, sponsorship, the funny fake half-mexico, half-fire jersey sales and most importantly a HUGE sucess on the field.

    Plus, I believe with Armas and a few others of the books for 2008 the FO have plenty of $ to spend if they want to...
     
  4. mchughes

    mchughes New Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    Provo, Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    with the retirements of armas and wanchope and the trades of curtin and guerro, that frees up about 800k. we have plenty of money
     
  5. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    Well, first of all the attendance would not have been 12,000.
    I don't remember any scheduled games in the first have of 07 with an attendance that low. In 2006 they had an avg of over 14,000, and historically they have their best attendance starting in September (when schools are back in session). There were no sellouts when Blanco first showed up if I recall. It was only later in the season when attendance started to really get strong (as it had in 2006).

    But either way... lets assume that just by signing Blanco, they put an extra 5000 people in the seats (which I think is more than he has actually contributed). And lets assume that the fire make an average of $20 in profit from each person (which is probably way way way more than they actually do). Over 20 home games that comes out as an extra $2,000,000, less than his salary.

    Now did the fire earn some extra $$ from shirt deals? Probably some. Would the Best Buy deal have not happened if Blanco was not here? Maybe?

    I'm not saying his signing was an obvious financial mistake, but I think it is far from clear that it was a slam dunk in terms of $$ and also in terms of play on the field. If my assumptions are only slightly changed from 5000 to 3000 and from $20 to $10, and all of a sudden things look a lot worse.

    Put it this way, did Blanco provide the team with 17X more value than Conde provided, either in financial or performance terms? Did he provide 70X more value than Pickens?

    Basically... if the fire are fine with spending this money, and right now they are getting serious bids together for real players for real money, then I have no problem. But if they are behind closed doors trying to find ways to cut costs to pay for Blanco, then that has me concerned.
     
  6. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    After Blanco arrived, all but one game sold-out, and that was 19K.

    No way in hell.

    Yes to both. Between jersey sales, attendance, sponserships, and general exposure which increases the previous three, Blanco has paid for himself.

    Besides, the extra cap space means the league isn't paying more, not the Fire.
     
  7. LocoGueroFutobolista

    Apr 18, 2004
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Jesus Christ.





















    Can we please go back to the "He comes home drunk and beats his wife and kids" (he's single, and no children, BTW) argument because it made more sense.
     
  8. SerenPerro

    SerenPerro Member

    Dec 14, 2007
    San Anto Texas
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

    haha dont forget he is the one that prolly is causing global warming,Some ppl try and try their hardest to blame Blanco for someshit just because he didnt flop :rolleyes:
     
  9. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    I said "Is it b/c of Blanco?" but if I had more room I would have said "Are we being tight with our money because of Blanco's salary on the books?"

    I'm not blaming Blanco for anything. He got offered a good deal, and took it, same as I would have done.

    But professional sports off all kinds are absolutely litered with examples of teams who put a lot of money into 1 player to the detrement of signing other players.

    e.g. Was A-Rod worth all that money in Texas? Maybe the greatest baseball player ever, but it really made it hard for the team to do anything other than pay his salary.

    This nonsense about beating his wife, or wanting him to flop or whatever is stupid. I want him to have a great great season. I wish he was faster, but he has the best vision on the field. If he brings more fans, Mexican or American, I don't care, the more the better.

    I'm just trying to figure out why the Fire can't seem to sign anyone, and seems to be removing itself (on paper) from being a contender this upcoming year. If they sign a bunch of Conde-like players in the coming weeks then we will know that they were just being patient with finding their players. In the mean time I am simply speculating.

    One person said:
    "with the retirements of armas and wanchope and the trades of curtin and guerro, that frees up about 800k. we have plenty of money"

    This is exactly my point. From this point last year, they have saved 800k, and spent 2.2M on Blanco. So if Blanco has been a financial success AND we have saved 800k, the team should have A TON of money to go get good players, and yet, nothing is happening.

    And, if Blanco's signing was such a big financial slam dunk, then why isn't every team in the MLS signing a big name international for big time money? Maybe they are all out trying to sign mexican stars and none are willing to move to the US, and the Fire were just lucky.. I dunno. But in business, people will copy a successful model immediately, so why aren't they?

    I'm just speculating. It's winter, I'm bored, I'm getting anxioius about the fire not signing some replacement players, did I mention I'm bored?
     
  10. bassett

    bassett New Member

    Jan 2, 2007
    As said before by sixkick the open money from armas and wanchope isn't to pay off blanco. The league pays the for the players in the cap and so if we got more players it wouldn't cost us. Can anybody back me up on this?
     
  11. samizdat7

    samizdat7 Member

    Jul 10, 2007
    You can't look at it as profit per ticket when you're analyzing Blanco's incremental value, you have to look at the average full ticket price.

    So say under your example, 5000 more fans show up to see Blanco. Let's say the average ticket price for those 5000 seats is $25. Those additional 5000 tickets generate $125,000 in incremental revenue (just for the tickets, not even considering incremental concessions and merchandise sales) and only a nominal amount of incremental expense.

    I can't believe someone is actually questioning the financial benefit of signing Blanco.
     
  12. samizdat7

    samizdat7 Member

    Jul 10, 2007
    And of course Blanco had EVERYTHING to do with the Best Buy deal. The biggest reason Best Buy wanted to do the deal is because they are preparing to expand to Mexico! And if the Fire could have signed such a lucrative deal without Blanco, why wouldn't they have done it before? They were smart, waited to get Blanco, and found the best deal possible.
     
  13. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    If this is true (the league pays for the salary cap) then obviously my original suggestion is wrong.
     
  14. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL

    I said 20, you say 25. Same ballpark.
    You talked about concessions. How much does the fire make on concessions? They don't own the stadium, so I don't know. 25*5000/game doesn't pay his salary so they have to be making it up in merchandise and sponsorship to break even. I'm not saying Best Buy would have signed w/o Blanco, but other teams have their own sponsorship w/o Blanco, so it isn't impossible for the fire to have found another sponsor.

    Let's say the Blanco deal fell through and instead the fire signed two or three up and comers like Conde for a total of 500-600k and the team started winning like crazy (like they did w/ Blanco). How many extra fans would have turned out to see a winning team on the field?

    Why is it such a sin to ask this question? If Blanco has paid for himself 2 times over, then why isn't every team in the MLS trying to sign away a top Mexican player? Maybe they are all out there trying and no one else wants to come to the MLS, who knows?
     
  15. Kozy

    Kozy tHE pOPULAR fRONT

    Oct 13, 2004
    check.
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is only one Cuahtemoc Blanco...
     
  16. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    This is exactly it. Cuau captures the heart of the people in way that Hermosillo, Hernandez, Campos, or Palencia never could.
     
  17. Kozy

    Kozy tHE pOPULAR fRONT

    Oct 13, 2004
    check.
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Blanco has fans around the globe...he is the 'real deal'.

    I have a Polish Hip-Hop CD with a song on it entitled "futbol" that mentions Blanco 4 or 5 times...although...I don't speak Polish...it is upbeat...so I'm sure it's all good.:D

    Blanco is worth the price of the ticket.
     
  18. samizdat7

    samizdat7 Member

    Jul 10, 2007
    You threw out 20 as a best case figure. I'm just telling you that it's not a best case figure.

    Not sure how that works.

    I'm assuming they made decent money on merchandise. Lord knows they sold a ton of Blanco jerseys and shirts.

    Yeah they would have found another sponsor, but for far less money. We don't know for sure what the Best Buy deal is worth, but it's rumored to be in the same ballpark as the Herbalife - Galaxy deal, which is pretty amazing. The Fire is an ideal marketing partner for companies looking to target Mexican American and Mexican markets because of Blanco.

    We've had winning teams in the past. How many games did we have with attendance at or near 20,000?

    It's not a sin to ask the question, but it's ridiculous to answer your own question with a bunch of wild and illogical assumptions.

    There is a flaw in your very premise. You're assuming that because A) The Fire are paying Blanco a lot of money and; B) The Fire have yet to sign another big name, then B) must be a direct result of A), which you have absolutely no factual evidence to support, and a lot of anecdotal evidence that points to the contrary.

    How many top Mexican players are there of Blanco's ability AND public profile?
     
  19. CubLou

    CubLou New Member

    Jan 12, 2008
    Chicago
    Blancos worth it. Marketing, ticket sales, play on the field, he has it all. Like some others have said Armas and Wanchope being gone will have some im[act to try and get somebody, not sure hopw much we really need. We were close last year (as we always are actually) and now our young forwards are gonna being playing with Blanco for a full year....
     
  20. Mean_Machine

    Mean_Machine New Member

    Jul 27, 2006
    Chicago
    It's actually quite simple. Blanco isn't just a top Mexican soccer player. He's THE iconic legend in Mexican soccer. Also, Chicago is one of the largest Hispanic markets in the country, and of all the hispanics in Chicago, 85% of them are Mexican. Blanco is a hero, the stuff of lore...

    Also, to whoever said that the Fire are one of the few teams in MLS that make money, don't kid yourself. The Fire are losing money. It's not even close. It gets better every year, but they still lose money.
     
  21. Tru Fan 07

    Tru Fan 07 New Member

    May 1, 2007
    From what it seems Chicago Fire will have same roster as last year. This is very disappointing. I was going to buy season tickets, not now to see Carr and Barrett. What's going on here guys? Fire will not be able to compete with teams like DC or NY. Why are we not scouting for young player in South America and Africa?
     
  22. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I think that over the next two years the Fire are going to make a dramatic push to get players, win game and get in international competitions. It's the only way to succeed when you're paying Blanco as much as he gets paid.
     
  23. Tru Fan 07

    Tru Fan 07 New Member

    May 1, 2007
    So basically it comes down to the salary cap. The only soccer league in the world with one. Damn
     
  24. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    "There is a flaw in your very premise. You're assuming that because A) The Fire are paying Blanco a lot of money and; B) The Fire have yet to sign another big name, then B) must be a direct result of A), which you have absolutely no factual evidence to support, and a lot of anecdotal evidence that points to the contrary."

    This is the whole point of my post. Does B have anything to do with A? I was asking the question. The answer seems to be "The league pays for the salary under the salary cap, so the Fire absolutely nothing to lose is signing someone within the salary cap."
     
  25. mchughes

    mchughes New Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    Provo, Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the fire are probably paying of some debt instead of buying new players
     

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