When to whistle for time is up

Discussion in 'Referee' started by NewBoots, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. NewBoots

    NewBoots New Member

    Aug 4, 2010
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    I worked a U16B match over the weekend that was playing 40 minute halves. Red was up 1-0 in the first half. Near the end of the half White GK makes a save and punts the ball up field. As he is punting I glance at my watch and see that we are at 40:35. I blow the whistle for the end of the half and White coach goes ballistic. Off the punt White had a 2v1 attack just over mid-field and the coach was incensed that I ended the half and didn't allow the attack to play out. I know what happens in the pitch is dictated both by the LOTG as well as tradition. I know the LOTG and ATR don't say anything about adding time to allow a attack to play out but what about tradition? It doesn’t seem to me to be fair to Red to add time just so White could attack. Thoughts?
     
  2. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Were there any injuries, excessive delays, and stoppages other than normal game stoppages? If no you were right to end the half(or game). However say that the team did score, now you'd have the other team mad at you.

    If there was a reason to add time you should have announce at the last minute of regulation how much time (minimum) you'll be adding, this way both coaches and players know they are playing into stoppage time.
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009

    If you search, you'll probably find a zillion threads on this, and a spectrum of opinion. Time is up when the ref says it is up. Different refs have different philosophies on what exactly that means in terms of precision. Some will take a broad not-during-an-attack and not-if-an-attacking-FK-or-CK is coming -- whcih can add quite a bit of time. IMHO, that goes too far. Some will take the hey-my-stop-watch-is-exact-and-beeps approach -- come heck or high-water, when that watch beeps for the 45th minute, they blow the whistle and if the ball is only halfway over the goal line, too bad, time was up. Again, I think this goes too far (and not all of these extremists also are precise about not starting their watch until it is kicked and moved on the initial KO...) Most, I think fall somewhere between the extremes. And here's where I fall. My backup watch vibrates, and I start it first. My official watch doesn't. When I feel the vibration, I know we're close. But I'm not going to look at my watch to check if something is happening that I really need to see -- like a player about to shoot or a shot in the air. Once I have time to look, that's it. So maybe an attacking team gets a few extra seconds -- but its the same way every game and I know what I'm going to do in advance. (I won't permit a restart [other than a PK] once time is up.)

    And I would strongly suggest, as I have posted before that having a philosophy that you will apply consitently is more important than the specific philisophy, as it means you are not making off-the-cuff decisions in an arbitrary way.

    I think you were 100% right to stop -- no way, no how do I see extending time on a punt because it could lead to an attack.

    (Or course, my descriptions of the extremes were more than a bit tongue in cheek . . .)
     
  4. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If 0:35 was about the right amount of stoppage, you did nothing wrong.

    It isn't fair to the defending team if you add time to allow a team time to build an attack. If the ball is not in the attacking third then you have no reason not to signal full time.

    In the attacking third I will wait a bit longer if there is an attack on the goal underway that may result in a shot after a few touches, but I still won't allow more time so the attcakers can build up an attack.
     
  5. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Add what he said to what I said.
     
  6. socref79

    socref79 Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    Glad you brought this up.

    In a tournament where no stoppage is permitted due to game scheduling (and made specific in tournament rules), I had to end a half when a team was awarded an IFK for a passback with 15 seconds to play. The attacking team took their time and did not get to take the FK. Of course the HC goes ballistic, enters the field, and challenges my authority. I understand his frustration so I explain to him why I was forced into ending the half. No avail. Had to send him away.

    In a league game, stoppage time had expired and the ball had gone out for a corner. I blow the whistle to end the game. AC goes nuts and says the usual "you're cheating the boys, you can't end the game on a corner, etc". So I ask him, when is the right time? After one? Two? Seven corners in a row? No, time is up, it's not a PK, you're not getting the CK. More dissent and a caution later, he calms down.
     
  7. whyref

    whyref Member

    May 26, 2006
    Just so this is in the proper perspective; the coach was incensed about a play out of the back - which was in his defending 1/3 - which he thought was a good counter and which was actually a 50/50 air ball that had yet to have possession determined?

    Is there really anymore to be said?
     
  8. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    My thoughts are a punt to just over mid-field does not make an attack on goal. It's "tradition" to not stop an impending attack. U16, ball near mid-field, does not make an impending attack. Blow the whistle if you feel time is up
     
  9. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just glad this wasn't a commentary on ending the never-ending hat-brim thing that ate Pittsburgh
     
  10. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Tournaments are a whole different kettle of flying fish!

    First, though, I have one of those really neat Seiko watches (my wife gave it to me as a present). It calculates stoppage time to the second, so if I hit the little green button to add time, and then stop it again, I know how much time to give.

    I also tell the benches how much time I am going to add, and I do it this way: "Guys, there will be AT LEAST an additional minute" (or whatever). Then I am free to allow for anything over that minute, and I have made a habit of not stopping an attack that has built up to the point of a shot being readied. However, should it break down, the whistle goes.

    Tournaments, well, coaches should know what they are buying into. A compact way to play four games in two days. That's what it really is. And the referees are told by the Rules of the competition that halves will be 30 minutes with no time added on for ANYTHING. You enter the tournament as a team, you play by the ROC. So, at 30 minutes the whistle goes. Not fair to the teams, perhaps, but everyone is under the same rules in this competition.

    And the last thing, if a coach had gone ballastic on me for blowing for the half, that would be his last action of the day.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I am SO glad that there is only one tournament around here that does the "no added time" thing, and its been shrinking for the last several years.

    I've done too many pro games with one coach screaming that he can't believe we're adding that little time and the other guy whining every 15 seconds that the added time MUST be up by now! It just goes with the territory. For me, a coach going "ballistic" over when the half ended is not going to be around for the second half. If I'm feeling particularly evil, I may hear him out, at great length, say four and a half minutes (of a five minute halftime), before letting him know that he won't be here for the second half.

    For me, once we've reached the amount of time I've decided to add, I may let it go another few seconds in the hopes of getting a stoppage or play in the middle third, but I'm not going beyond that, even on an attack. If you haven't scored by now..... War story: I'm doing a game solo, U-something boys, very one sided, 7-0, I think, and, at the very end of the game, there's a shot headed towards goal, an open goal, and I blew the whistle to end the game, before the ball got there. The winning coach starts complaining along the lines of "you don't stop the game while the ball is in the air, going towards goal." I said "When it's over, it's over, coach." He stops for a second and says, quietly, "Oh, I get it." I just gave him a little smile. They really didn't need that eighth goal.
     
  12. NewBoots

    NewBoots New Member

    Aug 4, 2010
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Thanks for the feedback. I didn't plan to add time that half since nothing occurred but the normal in/out of touch and chasing the ball about 4 yards when it went out the back and up against the fence. If I do add time I make sure everyone knows the minimum amount of stoppage time I'm adding. The White attacker had already gathered the ball but he and his teammate had about 40 yards and a defender between them and the goal. My only comment to the coach was the half is over when the whistle blows and there's no provisions for allowing time to build an attack. He got to stay for the second half but his AC was tossed when he yelled loud enough for everyone to hear "Why don't you just put on a red jersey".
     
  13. njref

    njref Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    New Jersey
     
  14. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Mar 30, 2011
    When we are within a minute of time running out I start counting down in my head so that I can focus on play. When I get to zero I blow the whistle unless the ball is in the air and headed toward the goal or it is within a couple of seconds of being put into play from a danger-zone free kick or a corner kick. I am not at all hesitant to end a half while a player is placing the ball for a corner kick or kickoff.
     
  15. socref79

    socref79 Member

    Apr 10, 2007
     
  16. refmedic

    refmedic Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    The period of play is a finite length. Both teams have had the same amount of time to attempt to score and win the game. Both teams have had the same amount of time to defend and prevent a goal from being scored. If there are reasons to add time, then add it. When time is up, time is up. If you decide to add more time based on the circumstances, you are now giving one team an advantage over the other, rather than being a neutral arbiter. The attacking team has had their time to score, and shouldn't be allowed more just because of where the ball is on the field. The defending team has defended for the time that they are required to based on the LOTG. They shouldn't have to defend longer because of where the ball is on the field. When the time is up, blow the whistle. The only exception to this is a PK, and it has a special dispensation in the Law book just to remind us.
     
  17. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    May 10, 2005
    I agree as long as you had not planned to add time.

    First of all, rules of competition say no added time, so you well within your rights to end the half ??:00.

    You call the IFK with :15 seconds until ??:00. How much time did they take? Did you tell to get a move on? Were they: A. Discussing who was going to take the kick, who was going to be second touch, etc. All things that are part of normal play. Or: B. were they blatantly wasting time.

    Case A:

    If they took 30 seconds to take the kick, then you have effectively added 15 seconds plus how long it took for the IFK to play out. I really don't think that small amount of time was going to effect the tournament schedule. Your intent was to allow them the IDFK, so as long they are playing in the spirit of the game, then let them take the kick.

    Case B: If you gave them fair warning to speed up time is almost up and they were blatantly ignoring you then all bets are off, blow the whistle. If you are vocal about this (coach and everybody else in the zip code can hear you), then the coach may direct his anger at his players. Maybe, but you did all you could.


    Again, I wasn't here. But, if time has expired then you well within your rights to end the match.

    Hopefully you did not point to the corner then realize time had expired and blew your whistle. That would not have looked good, although technically you are within your rights to end the game. If you blew the whistle as soon as the ball left the field of play and pointed to the center circle without hesitation then you send the message that time was up regardless of the outcome of the last touch. Coach may still bitch about it though.
     
  18. The Green Mushroom

    Oct 19, 2011
    I hope you will forgive a question from a person who freely admits that "nothing at all" is an accurate description of his knowledge of the laws of game.

    What do the laws say about when a half ends? Is it like rugby and American football where play continues after time is reached or is it like basketball where play stops but the ball is still live in flight or like hockey where its just plain dead?
     
  19. socref79

    socref79 Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    Case B, 100%. I even committed a cardinal sin and told them the exact time left in the half. It was their choice to not even be near the ball when exact time had expired.

    Of course, ball goes out, within 5 seconds the whistle blows for the end of the game. That particular league doesn't have the same caliber of coaches as most other comparable leagues (ie-not paid coaches). I don't consider within 5 seconds to be hesitation. And at that age group, he's typically getting nearly fresh meat that may or may not be ready to handle his coaching tactics, so he hasn't really gotten anyone that has stood up to his tirades yet. Until that day.
     
  20. Cho Da

    Cho Da Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Time is up when the referee decides to blow the whistle for time. At that point, "it's just plain dead."
     
  21. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Time ends when time ends. Not trying to be problematic, but the half is 45 minutess, plus stoppage time added at the discretion of the referee. That "discretion" is where the fun comes in. You add time for lost time, what's "lost" and how much is added? Up to the referee. So in effect time is up when the referee blows the whistle.
     
  22. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    One way to quiet the grumblers when you blow time before a corner kick, is to tell them that you have already added some time. (You don't need to elaborate, or answer any follow-up questions.)
     

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