thats a very cool list. othing really all that shocking, but i think Sean's dead on in that Stern John is probably a little under appreciated wen it comes to his talent and impact on the league.
Yeah I actually completely missed that. I'd just assumed he was on there and my mind's eye didn't realise. Definately shoudl be there over Cienfuegos.
I lost the little respect i did have for wheelock after that... the only two mids i could see over nowak are etcheverry and valderamma, but those two plus nowak are the top 3 so on a list of 5 its ridiculous not to include him..
The praise for Campos is way over the top. And frankly, I think Pat Onstad had a better year this year than Campos ever had in MLS. I actually enjoyed seeing Campos in the nets against a team I was rooting for - it made me feel like my team might pick up a strange goal, or have lots of its crosses go unchallenged. Earlier in his career, there was a time he terrified me as Mexico's goalie, but not in MLS.
No Nowak. Jorge Campos. Was that the sound of the shred of respect I had left for Wheelock being flushed down the toilet?
No Nowak? Compost instead of Zenga? Hell, I'd take Onstad or even Ravelli over Compost. Back line looks a tad questionable to me as well. Wheelock is just a silly, silly, man.
While I hate Wheelock as much as the next guy I can't say that there is anything terrible about this list. Cien (and I hate him more than I hate Wheelock) had more years than Nowak and was a force early in the league. Diaz Arce (who I hate more than anyone) probably belongs behind Moreno but the case can be made there also.
Nothing really new to add. Clearly leaving off Nowak and including Campos were mistakes. I'm surprised that people are saying Nowak for Cien, I'd sub Nowak for Donadoni. He did nothing special for *#*#*#*#*# Metros teams.
Yes, I believe Nowak should have been included. But name another foreign born goalie that did as much as Campos. I sure can't think of one.
I'd swap Nowak for Cien. I've hated the Metros from day one, but Donadoni really was special. Seriously, the guy was pure Serie A-level class every time I saw him play. I suppose, however, that he had less impact on the league than either Nowak or Cien... Diaz Arce over Moreno is a joke.
Zenga. Campos had precisely one good year 1996 (the league's inception BTW). Then he lost his starting spot on two successive teams. He was, IMHO, a bit of a joke. As far as Nowak is concerned, the only player on Wheelock's list to contend with him for the best overall player to ever play in the MLS (in terms of ability, accomplishments, and longevity) is Etcheverry. So nix who you want, Nowak's got to be there. Maybe Wheelock should have gone with a 2 - 6 -2, or pulled the keeper for a field player.
Wow....its obvious you must have not watched one MLS/Metrostars game prior to the Fire's inclusion into the league....and if you did....WOW....get an education on the sport....or a pair of glasses.... Even though Donadoni only played during the first two seasons of the league, and those two seasons were obviously played at a very low level.....anyone who watched his 51 matches...or even just ONE of those matches he played in MLS can obviously see the man is THE most technically and tactically gifted player ever to grace an MLS fieild. In addition, no other player in MLS has even had half the talent of Roberto Donadoni. Forget Valderrama, Cienfuegos, Etcheverry.....they were two or three steps below..... I remember watching games against DC and Tampa....Etch and El Pibe would not dare go against Roberto....they knew they would be be made fools of both when they had the ball and when they didn't. Even his own teammate Tab Ramos was red with envy....crying "this was supposed to be MY team"
I'd sub Nowak for Johnston. Ravelli possibly over Campos. I also think that Wheelock misreads Kubik's 9 goals. It wasn't really a result of him pushing up much, but more due to his position as designated PK taker.
East coast bias, alive and well.. SW said at the beginning of the article that it's based on total impact, not current playing ability, or best year, etc. Campos - Forget that only Thornton and Hartman have a better GAA (3500 min.) than Campos in MLS history. His brought much needed recognition in the early days of the sport. MLS could unquestionably use color like his today. There is no other alternative here. Johnston - Unlike Novak, he's been here since '96. Mo stepped off the plane for 2 goals in his debut - on national TV. He too was a catalyst for a play that allowed KC to even compete for a Cup. In the mini-game, LA won Game 1, KC came back, too old, too slow, nothing but heart engaged, desparate diving header, cleat to the head, goal, blood flows, LA on a plane, KC on to RFK. No matter that nobody around the country saw it, it happened. These is not even one other play like it in the history of MLS, not another even close. If it happened anywhere but in KC, it would be on par with the Immaculate Reception for the NFL. The player's know. Novak over Cien. - Although Cien was involved in countless more goals, the images of Nowak's celebrations still resonate today. His involvement with foreign communities will continue to pay great divedends to soccer in Chicago and MLS. I can't imagine Cien has had the same magnitude of impact locally or nationally. RDA over Moreno - Not a reach to me. Who sold more tickets? Numbers are similar. RDA's hat trick over MLS best TB in '96 set tone for United's first Cup appearance. His last minute pk closed out the comback against Metros to start it off. Remember Metros won the Game 1 in RFK on the Vermes' hobble SO with Arena having the coniption fit. Arguably, without '96, the "aura of a Champion" that is so highly revered on the dc board might not exist. Without the effort of RDA maybe TB goes on to the Cup and soccer is still in Florida; dc might be closer to Metros or Colorado.
Re: East coast bias, alive and well.. GAA is a highly debatable criterion for assessing keepers since it fails to factor in the contribution of the defense. Save percentage (percentage of shots-on-goal saved) is a much better criterion. Again, Campos had one good year - 1996 - when he led the league (by a narrow margin over Tony Meola) in save percentage. After that, strictly middle of the pack, and then, of course, bench. I also don't know how you measure "recognition", but I suppose Matteus and Branco added some of that too (for better or for worse). I thought the value of the "recognition" Campos brought the MLS, when he was going back-and-forth between it and the MFL, was dubious. Zenga was better for longer and was never relegated to the bench.
What about him? He surely doesn't deserve on the list if there are only two spots at the position. This reminds me that I'd love to see a list on the top divers ever in MLS. Has there been one, or two, or probably three? I gotta go search for those. Anyways, as I said, it wasn't a mistake for that douche to be left off Wheelock's list.
I sent an e-mail to Wheelock complaining about his omission of Nowak. I said if impact on the League is the determining factor then Nowak may have made more of an impact than anyone. He was instrumental in setting the professionalism for the Fire from Day One. It was that tenor which helped show young American players how a Pro should train, behave etc. My point is proven by the very fact that DC has given Nowak the responsibility of restoring a once-proud club, not to mention show Freddie Adu how a pro does it.
Re: Re: East coast bias, alive and well.. When all was said and done, Mark Dodd won Goalkeeper of the Year in 1996. And that was in Campos' supposed best season. So much for him. Walter Zenga may not have been a good coach, but he was a better GK than Campos.