What's wrong with this picture?

ahh, the good ole days, i miss em.

What will it seriously take to either get Kraft to build a stadium (which i noticed the are working across RT 1 to clear land, anybody knows what thats about?) or sell the team so someone could build a stadium. I want a soccer atmosphere where i feel comfortable tailgating with anyone or playing a soccer game before the game with a bunch of strangers.

 

Sadly, I find myself totally agreeing with RevsRule.

For the first time ever since they were formed, it looks like I might not get to even one game this season.

But I do think RevsRule misses some points; not only a different stadium and cheaper pricing, but also owners that take more than a passing interest and a more lively marketing campaign would help too. And media coverage too.

 

One other note about the "atmosphere," sure, it is up to the fans to create it, but it's an uphill battle when one side of the stadium is completely empty. Any noise gets swallowed up and dies.

As for "atmosphere" at Pats games, I remember there were at least a couple of articles last fall where even the players noticed that the crowd noise was not all that great. That huge open area next to the fort certainly hurts in that regard. Also, the Pats say that the fans are a lot further from the field than they used to be (now there's something you can blame soccer for!), so it just isn't as loud.

I once button-holed Jon Kraft and showed him some pix of new English stadiums, with the roof and stands close to the action, with the idea of designing the stadium like that to help the Pats, the way the Donks at Mile High used to have such a loud crowd the opposing team couldn't even hear their QB. Building a 68,000 seat version of some of these would have given that atmosphere, but no, they went with a design that is really nothing special--just a variation of the Redskins or Browns new digs.

Problem is, just about any new stadium lacks the "atmosphere" of the old one. The same number of fans in a much larger area will do that.

Tom

 

But I'm not talking about the great unwashed masses, I'm talking about the 40-50k folks who do consider the Revs big league. Either soccer fans are fickle cheapskates compared to fans of other sports, or I'm missing something.

 

Anarchy is fun.

Interesting point. Atmosphere is notoriously difficult to manufacture. We've all heard Rev management's clumsy attempts, e.g. "Let's make some noise!". Atmosphere, however, cannot come from a loudspeaker. It is in it's nature a little anarchic - out of the control of the management. The necessary dose of anarchy comes from the number of people there, and from the collective imaginations of the diehards who tailgate, publish fanzines, play drums, bring signs, invent chants, etc. Their excitement pulls in new fans, who want to understand what the excitement is about. It does not come from pediatric diversions like the wave, nor from the random fan abusing the opposing coach, e.g. "Yo Hudson, you're an ahhhshole!" I think it takes some corporate stones to foster the anarchy by marketing to people with more enthusiasm than money, and letting the anarchy flow. The Krafts' record speaks for itself.

 

There can't be any "atmosphere" without a significant number of PASSIONATE fans. I agree that there are plenty of legitimate reasons why attendance is down, but blaming lack of "atmosphere" on the stadium is off base. The Gold Cup proved that there can be great "atmosphere" at Gillette.

If people aren't coming because of "atmosphere" (low on the list of reasons, IMO), then it's a chicken/egg situation - people make atmosphere, so if they don't come, they won't create the reason for coming.

Get more people who love the game, give them an exciting team and no one will be complaining about atmosphere. The stadium isn't the problem.

After YEARS of having a doormat on the field, it's ironic that we now have a competitive, exciting team and people find a thousand reasons not to come. If you love soccer, get your butt over there (while there still is a game to see).

 

How many people consider the Sox, Bruins, Celts, or Pats big league? Quite a few more than 40-50k. If there were 800k in the Boston area that thought soccer was big league, the Revs management could afford to act the way they do. As things are now, they're pissing away a loyal fanbase through neglect.

 

im a passionate fan but there isnt enough around me to get something going.

 

Well, considering the lucrative trade of fanzine publishing, it's hard to argue that fans are NOT "fickle cheapskates"

But the real issue is that the "major" sports (including big-time college teams in other parts of the country) are indeed major. Even though it's expensive, the general perception is that to pay a lot of money for a ticket is OK because they are the best at what they do. It's unfair to compare the Revs with the other pro teams (when the youngest of the big 4 has been around more than 40 years). Even if one of the other teams was the Carolina Panthers or New Orleans Hornets, they may be new teams, but the league is big-time and well established. People can rationalize paying $75 for that.

MLS is Major League in name only. Nothing wrong with that, but the reality is that we have more in common with the Norwich Navigators, Paw Sox, Lowell Lock Monsters, Wista Ice Cats, Lowell Spinners and Brockton Rox than we do with the Broons, Sox, Celtics and Pats. The problem is that the Revs management doesn't believe this to be true. In fact, their response to the complaint that the Revs game attendance costs are a lot higher than average in MLS is that it's still cheaper than the local Big 4 teams. Yes, and a Hyundai costs less than a Rolls Royce, but people aren't going to pay Rolls Royce prices for a Hyundai. They won't even pay Cadillac or Buick prices for a Hyudai, but the Revs don't seem to understand this.

I don't think there are 40-50,000 people who think the Revs are big league. I'd say that the majority of them at least at one time though tof the Revs as a relatively inexpensive night out, a good value for the money time, and being a "different" kind of sport--more international, no primadonna athletes you see in other sports, etc. And now it isn't so inexpensive anymore...

Tom

 

This is Big Lou.

He is a carryball type of guy.

In a cost cutting move he sacked the soccer folks and had the carryball folks doing double duty.

This is why attendance is down.

The Rev's are just a filler betweenn NFL seasons. That's where the real $$$ can be found. He has a fixed asset that sits there 365 days a year. Might as well put 14,000 or 13,000 fannies in those expensive new seats on those unimportant NFL days. Makes financial sense. Doesn't make soccer friends.

 

LETS KICK HIS ASS!!!

 

Re: Re: What's wrong with this picture?

 

"Do you think a "carryball-type of guy" is thinking about things like this?"

Do you know he's not? I don't believe any of Craig's bosses want to see the Revs fail, but like parents who dote on a more successful oldest child, I think they need to spend more time with the younger sibling.

My main beef is the lack of marketing, so I'm with you on the intern idea.

We chatted with Craig at the last Riders tailgate, and he indicated that mgmt is indeed rethinking the starting time issue for next year with an eye to returning to 7:30pm. And he said they do read these boards to see what the fans are saying...

But it's all in the execution. We'll see where we go next season. Or for that matter, with playoff games coming up.

amy

 

Re: Re: What's wrong with this picture?

You forgot "pointyball" and "helmetball", as well as "gorillaball".

Double duty would be nice.I think it's more like "work on the Revs when you get around to it, as long as it doesn't interfere with your Patriots (there, I said it!) duty, and doesn't cost any money".

 

This "major league" thing is a total canard, something to hide behind for both sides when they take potshots.

First, Steve Nicol, Jose Cancela and Joe-Max Moore readily positioned the Revs specifically and MLS generally as mid to upper Engliah Div I, the equivalent of a very high level of Triple a baseball. In fact, considerably higher, since most Nationwide teams employ a considerable number of players from all over the world and would be more accomplished than a development or nursery team for the big leagues.

In point of fact, many people feel that the top MLS teams might be in the promotion hunt to get into the Premier League. They probably would be demoted straightway but that would be as much a question of depth as it would be talent.

Then turn this around. The Premeir League is the highest paying league in the soccer world. Perhaps 2/3rd of the players aren't UK citizens. The talent pool is world wide, far greater than the pool for Baseball, football, etc. The EPL is 20 teams, our "big leagues" have about 30 each and our draw, with some exceptions, is from the US population. Yes, baseball,basketball and certainly hockey, attract players from other countries but nothing like England and, to a lesser extent, Spain, Italy and Mexico.

My point is that with approx 120 "major league" teams I think it is fair to say that the higher level MLS teams may, in fact, be better at what they do (play soccer) than the lower 20% of "major league" teams in other sports.. I think you might even say that the current Revs, worldwide, might be on a par with the recent Bruins or Celtics. I realize this is apples and oranges and maybe even prunes but the people who sit in the Big Razor, Fleet Center or Fenway to watch a lower end struggle v. some nohope team are deluding themselves to believe that what they are seeing on the field is any more "major league" than say Revs v. Fire, on a good day.

At this point, as a lifelong sports fan, I really don't think I offering a pie-in-the-sky interpretation. Certainly the Revs have more in common with the PawSox than the RedSox, both on scale and support but their level of play is a lot better than many would acknowledge and the difference, these days, between AAA and the bigs (Yankees, Nets, etc. aside i.e. the top teams) is very small.

Now, if my arguement is true do you think the upper Revs management could actually figure out how to spin that? I'm not sure but I would be happy to help them, gratis.

JIM DOW

 

I'm glad that they read the boards. If they cared, they would survey the season ticket holders, current and previous, as to the likes & dislikes of the club & its organization. Random surveys to the patrons in the stadium (they used to do that a few years ago).