Sounds like there's hatred on both sides. But go over to the English boards, those guys hate every team but their own, and some even hate their own team. As long as they have to play by the same rules as the rest of the teams no problems. There are plenty of Americans with Mexican heritage born here to build your team from if you want to be Chivas America then that would be a win situation for everyone. We are not cultivating the young latino players that were born in this country and we should. I would hope those players would play for the US if given the opportunity. I have a feeling that it will turn into a big Mexico vs US thing instead of an San Diego vs Colorado game. As far as the name Chivas is fine for me. Most people don't know what it means anyway. They could hand out some translation pamplets at the gates with purposely wrong translations - aka Monty Python. Hey Ref Go Home - Hey Ref socco la mota Hey Goalie your a bad player - Hey golie chupa la verga.
Target audience My question remains - who is the targeted fan base? If Vergara wants to target the Mexican population, I don't think it will work in the long run. Why would Mexican supporters of Chivas suddenly support an MLS team when they can still identify with Chivas in Mexico? If they look down at MLS as an inferior league, why would they support Chivas USA? Also, I have no problem with foreign investment in MLS - any investment is good. But an attempt to make some connection with the local community should be made by identifying or branding the team with a regional or city moniker of some sort. Who knows what the team name will be - but I do think any sports team needs to have some geographic reference (though I'm sure there is an exception somewhere) to create some local support.
I am all for a team that looks out for a more Mexican feel in MLS as long as it isn't denying good soccer players of non-hispanic decent a shot to play. I also like the idea of having a largely hispanic squad in MLS because it will have a great following. HOWEVER I am completely against obvious racism in which what Vergara is doing, in a country that has had a long and hard fought history of racism, is trying to create an ethnicly unified team in the USA. "I am having 'open' tryouts for my team and if your not hispanic or speak Spanish then please don't bother to come". My Hispanic friends, imagine if you will an owner from England trying to enter MLS but only wants white players from Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. Yes he is having tryouts for his team but only people who have family links to one of the countries mentioned and NO HISPANICS ARE WELCOME. Yes his movement is going to be called operation "white blood" to find the great white hope in the USA. Anyone who would try such a thing would be called a racist Nazi and you know it. Vergara is coming off as being racist in many ways for attemting to have an all Hispanic team. He will definitely not be welcome into MLS, not to mention the USA, if he turns down a genuinely good soccer player simply out of the fact he is not hispanic or speak spanish. So you want to know what all the anger is about? Just look up some books on Martin Luther King, the American Civil War, and World War II to see just why Americans feel so strongly about racism. I am all for foreign investors coming into the league and playing by MLS rules and offering players of every nationality and race a shot on his team. I am completely against creating a team to be the rallying point for a single race to exploit the league as it sees fit.
Really? Here's a clue: the folks who are prenatal Chivas (Gua.) fans are going to stay Chivas fans. You don't have to go far here to find folks who were raised on other leagues looking down their noses at MLS and saying they will NEVER attend an MLS match. Trying to cater to these folks while ignoring the folks like me for whom MLS is the first and foremost league of interest is pure foolhardiness. Given a choice between watching MLS or watching whatever league you were brought up on, are you really telling me you'll pick MLS? For me, I'd watch MLS over just about anything else. Oh, and yes, I don't watch ANY other sports, except once in a great while. I haven't met a lot of folks who weren't MLS fans first and foremost at matches. MLS isn't really bending over backwards for this group of naysayers. Nope it's the youth soccer crowd and group ticket sales that seem to get the bulk of the attention and shell out the bulk of the dollars. And, yes, rowdiness is a big part of the NFL scene, which is why a lot of families will stay away.
Dude, do some reading b4 posting. There are several threads floating around about how he will conform to current MLS rules as per Senior Internationals etc., and Chivas USA will begin to develop US Latino talent. US Latinos ARE American, hence eligible for USMNT. check the Chivas forum and "Chivas Press Conference". Find us a quote from a reputable source (non BS post) where VERGARA states that he will field an all-Mexican team. Come ON! Why would he build a feeder club by taking on the debt of all the unprofitable franchises in MLS (too many to name here), spending the franchise fee, building a profitable franchise, building an SSS? Is that an economical plan for development of US talent for a team (Chivas) that would only be able to use at BEST 3/4 players?
Gosh, I'll start paying attention to you. I'll stop inviting my Eurosnob friends to go to games; I'll stop inviting my Latin American friends as well, b/c they just would never go to an MLS game. Damn. I wish I had thought of this last week, BEFORE inviting a Eurosnob to what probably was one of the best MLS games in history (SJ/LA). I'll let him know that, NO, he absolutely cannot return this weekend to watch his new favorite team. I'll tell my Peruvian friend that came to a Galaxy game w/ me this summer in LA, that no, the tix he bought to MLS final are actually FAKE tix b/c there's no way that he would be interested in MLS b/c he's a follower of the Peruvian league. I was brought up on La Liga (Spain), arguably the top league in the world. I support MLS b/c I like good soccer and I see my participation as an investment. I bring friends and acquaintances, who more and more are impressed w/ the quality of play. And its LIVE! Take a look at the first year numbers. Honestly, THAT is number many teams could get w/in 10 years. The interest is out there.
Well, that's fair enough, but how many of you folks are there? Frankly, it's really! great to hear about you and your friends taking an interest in this here bush league! I am still under the impression that you and your buddies form a minority in the base of fans in the league, though. If only we had an MLS marketer here, we might be able to get good numbers. I think you're right, the interest is there, but it isn't just folks who are already soccer fans coming in from other countries. There's a lot of developing interest from folks who learned about the game here and I think they're going to form the foundation of the league's success, not the ex-pats from various places. G.
Not sure if you consider it a reliable source, plus he's not saying it's an all-Mexican team (just Hispanic decent) but here's a link: http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeld=2&Contentld=1052 (scroll to the second story) I personally don't think he should be allowed to discriminate like this in our country. Surely US Department of Labor will have a say in this. I certainly hope so. Cause it ain't right.
From the article cited: "We are inviting all Mexicans born in the United States, or the sons of Mexicans who were born in the US who speak Spanish because the majority of the team will be made up of Spanish speaking players," Vergara said in Los Angeles. Someone please tell me how single-entity and player diversity falls within Vergara's comments. I'm more skeptical now than I was earlier in the thread....
Hardly the definition of 'open' tryouts. Also from this article: That sound you hear is the lawyers sharpening their pencils.
How's he going to pull this off, given that the LEAGUE holds the contracts and allocates the players? MLS itself would have to agree to this, and that I really can't see happening (nor can I see them allowing the "feeder" system happening, unless Chivas is willing to pay large transfer fees to MLS.) G.
I'm seeing $$$$ signs right now.....going to pack my bags, go try out, and then sue for racial descrimination when I'm turned away!
A simple, two syllable word, part of a catch phrase you seem to post on a daily basis, and you still haven't figured out how to spell it. I hope other aspects of your therapy are progressing better.
yeah, and goddamn they'll be laughed out of their office when they contract a translator and realize that they're frickin' IDIOTS. Spanish version: "Estamos invitando a todos los mexicanos nacidos en Estados Unidos o a los hijos de mexicanos nacidos en Estados Unidos y todos los que hablen español para que se integren, porque el equipo va a ser conformado en su mayoría por hispanoparlantes" To be lazy and quote KPaulson in another thread: And you'd be right KP. This is a critical lack of usage of the "personal 'a'", a preposition used b4 direct objects that refer to specific ppl (and sometimes pets). THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T USE THE 'PERSONAL A' OPENS UP THE "INVITATION" EVEN MORE. In other words, they are not going for a specific player base (foreign Latinos, US Latinos) but for a rather wide open array of players. I actually wouldn't charge a lawyer who asked me to translate this. What I would do is do it for free, then laugh at him and figure out some form of public humiliation as a form of torture.
Here is my correct translation: We are inviting all mexicans or sons of mexicans and everyone who speaks spanish (like Donovan), because the the majority of the team (not all) will be made up of Spanish speaking players.
Aw, but where's the controversy in that? It's just a team that speaks a lot of Spanish? What? After all the bile and racial invective? The sky falls on the language the players might use on the field? I bet there's more to it. I KNOW! I would conjecture they're going to order - yes! MEXICAN FOOD for the team lunches. That will be the beginning of the Mexicanization. They'll start with our stomachs, dammit. You are what you eat. If I eat a taco, I will play like Blanco. Makes as much sense as some stuff I've read here.
Why do some of you keep insisting this is a zero-sum game? As if every attempt to induce a Spanish-heritage individual into attending a match is taking time away from marketing to American-born folks. Vergara will be trying to get both. I'm not a big football fan, but I'll hand the NFL one thing. It doesn't pretend to be "G" rated entertainment and it isn't. If you're faint of heart, you shouldn't go. I like soccer that way, too.
Because there are only so many marketing dollars, and really only one brand. If you go to make it a family friendly, indigenous league that will appeal to the mainstream of American soccer, then that makes it hard to simultaneously work to create a hard charging, testoterone laden internationalized sport with ties to other countries but no local roots. It's a matter of where you spend limited time and energy. Frankly, the soccer moms are an easier sell than the Juventus or UNAM fan, who will probably never entirely embrace the league. Trying for some kind of fakey be-like-europe approach to pursue these untouchables is a bad idea if it alienates the homegrown fans. Sure, if you can do both, great! More fans are always better and it ought to be a big tent. In practice it may not be feasible, and the prenatal corner of the tent is likely to remain pretty sparsely populated while they stay home watching their mother club on satellite rather than going to games or tuning into ESPN2. We're probably pretty similar in that way, since I get pretty rowdy at MLS (and Gnat) matches. I NEVER leave one with my voice anything but very very hoarse, and have gotten chewed out by above mentioned soccer mom more than once for my use of language. HOWEVER, until the folks who want the R-rated version outnumber and spend more money than the affluent family crowd, MLS would be wise to remember what side their bread is buttered on. Sure, purists may cry for whatever, but until they put their money where their mouth is in large numbers, they shouldn't be catered to. The African sparrow's not migratory, that's my point.... G.
Good points Guinho. But there is one thing that satellite cannot capture: a live event. When I've taken Soccer Snob friends to a great game w/ atmosphere, they've been impressed and have become fans to varying degrees. When it's been a dud, it's a bit harder. But hasn't the league said that it will focus on 3 areas: the adult soccer league participant (?), the Latino AND the family? Although I don't recall completely, the point is that the marketing dollar will be split. and once again, WUSA had the family as their bread and butter. Left 'em kinda hungry. The adult crowd will create the atmosphere that will entice more Latinos and Soccer Snobs to join the fray...
OK, let's stop with the WUSA comparisons. WUSA and MLS are after completely different market segments. Since the WWC in 1999, WUSA has been targetting the 9-12 year old Pony Tailed Hooligan crowd almost exclusively. The problem is, in 2003 they were STILL (for the most part) targetting the 9-12 year old Pony Tailed Hooligan crowd. The original target grew up to be teenagers, and didn't want to associate with something that screams "I'm 10 years old". Face it, when you're a 14 - 15 year old teenager, you already (think) you're all grown up. Meanwhile, the current 9-12 year old PTH crowd was too young to remember the 1999 WWC, so they never connected with the league or the players. WUSA STARTED to TRY to target to the 'soccer' crowd this past year, but by then their niche was too well defined and they had zero money to spend.