What's gone wrong?

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. Soc4Us

    Soc4Us Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Dunstable, MA
    1. Coach has publicly, and I assumed privately, made too many excuses for not playing to win. Don't seem how that helps a team have a champion's attitude.

    2. Playing a 4-5-1 nullifies Twellman's ability. He is a finisher, not a creator and then finisher.

    3. Playing a 4-4-2 with two holding midfielders leaves a gap behind the forwards which causes a breakdown in play.

    4. There are other teams in MLS with as much talent as the Revs.
     
  2. jwoo

    jwoo Member

    Jul 30, 2008
    West Newton, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Heresy!!! That doesn't fit into my world view.:D
     
  3. brazrazra

    brazrazra Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    At the start of the year we were all excited because we had speed, SPEED, players. And that's an element this team hasn't had for a long time.

    Last year we had the same old system drumed out by the same old people with the lack of talent on the field and especially on the bench.

    This year we had a huge talent influx, and potentially it could be a lot more.

    Personally I think the big reason to our lack of success lately has been our inability to mold what we have. For years upon years we've played a slow grind it out conservative style. Dempsey was able to work in that and not only be a creator but a finisher.. but that took a long time for him to do. Now we have finishers,passers, and speedsters. But not one do it all player.

    Now for Twellman, he's too good to not play... but he likes the old style wich negelects our new weapons and holds us back. Also the new guys are new and don't execute everything perfectly like we've seen in years past. And we've had in and out full of new players so no one set of players has been able to drill merticulously on one style together.

    So in conclusion, during our games lately there has been two teams of equal talent and ours just isn't maximizing their full potential on the field. It's probuly too late to find a groove this year.. but were not short on talent or depth compared to other teams so we could still be holding the cup in the end.
     
  4. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We had a chance to win 5 trophies this year. We won the first, forfeited the second and third, and now the fourth one is pretty much gone down the tubes, even though we were a man up against a team missing its best player for 35 minutes.

    At the end of the day, this Revs team just isn't that good.
     
  5. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    Until mid-August, around the time Badilla was signed, the Revs consistently played 3-5-2. I'm not saying Badilla played in every 4-4-2 game but I believe his signing is part of the reason for Nicol's change in tactics.

    You can view the game lineups at at the Fox Soccer website if you have any doubts.

    I'd argue they effectively forfeited the 4th too.
     
  6. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    So you're blaming him for the team having one win and one draw between the time he was signed and the time he debuted?
     
  7. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    No - I'm blaming Nicol for changing from an effective 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2. Since the change to a 4-4-2 coincided with the signing of Badilla, I'm assuming Nicol either signed Badilla because he wanted to play a 4-4-2 formation or he's changed to 4-4-2 as a way to get Badilla on the pitch. I have no quarrel with Badilla but think it would be much more effective if we sat either Heaps or Albright to get Badilla on the field.
     
  8. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Great post - repped. We had a couple of games - the first Houston game at home, etc where we were really dominant. But, a lot of the games early on were just as you describe.
     
  9. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with what you say about Jeff and have floated the idea of moving Badilla up one position to DM several times. I think Jeff is more of a weak link than Heaps or Albright and Phalen IS much worse. If I had to sit one defender, it would be Albright. I think Heaps has one, maybe two years left on this team.

    As for our overall problem ... It comes down to faiing to improve ourselves enough when we had the time, money and slots. Other teams have gotten much better while we're basically the same. Our past success has been a result of over achiving rather then a lot of talent but that isn't happening this year. We've lacked a true AM for years and have done nothing about it. SN got a winner with Dempsey but the signings after that have been mixed. We always seem to be looking for that "project" player rather then signing a proven winner (except Badilla). Castro is OK sometimes but this is a big size player, physical league and his body type can't make it here. I doubt he'll be back.

    Twellman - people are right when they say we've slid since he returned. We have. I've always been a fan but he doesn't seem to fit here anymore. We are not geared for feeding him the ball enough for him to produce. Maybe we should trade him for a player (not money we will never use)

    Finally - letting Dorman go was a mistake. He could be starting this year
     
  10. miked9

    miked9 Member+

    May 4, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I was going to say this earlier but decided not to get into that whole thing where people argue that "played himself off the field" or that Wells beat him out for his spot...I just don't buy it, and never have. I'm happy he's succeeding at St Mirren and getting looks now, but you can't tell me he isn't twice the player that Wells is.
     
  11. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    Was he signed for that, or was he signed as Parkhurst's understudy?

    We seem to have too many defensive players out of the roster of available players, but signing Badilla may have been the most important thing we did this year, viewed from next year.
     
  12. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the past several years, the whole has always been greater than the sum of the parts. Nicol and Mariner succeeded at assembling a system and a team to fit the system.

    I think that certain players are somewhat brittle, are somewhat less adaptable to playing in different systems. This would certainly include Larentowicz and Heaps, and may also include Parkhurst. In addition, the system can hide the fact that some players are just not that talented - particularly young players.

    (I think it can work both ways - perhaps there is an inner Steve Ralston lurking in Wells Thompson's body, but the system doesn't bring it out.) :)

    It may also be that MLS teams have worked out how to play against us. The 4-4-2 may be one way that SN is trying to combat that, but it appears he doesn't have all the players to be effective in that formation (or at least they are taking a while to adapt).

    Finally, an effective system can mask the fact that your talent isn't keeping up with the rest of the league. It's possible that the bill for this is finally coming due.
     
  13. Warrior51

    Warrior51 New Member

    Mar 25, 2004
    North Shore
    I have come to believe that Wells Thompson just isn't that good. He may get better but for now, ugh...and Castro? yikes! It was a welcome relief to see Sainey and Dube back in on Saturday. They brought some energy back to the field but unfortunately we couldn't capitalize.
     
  14. GOREVS3000

    GOREVS3000 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2006
    Boston
    Club:
    2 de Mayo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Six trophies...but we'll probably lose that one in painful fashion.
     
  15. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every time I see his name, I die a little bit inside. But of course, he wouldn't have fit here. :rolleyes:
    Walking around the tailgate here and in Denver, you wouldn't be the only one feeling that way.
    I said this when he was about to play his first game here, was it the right thing to do to let him jump right in when our defense is basically based on cohesion. I'm not sure if the results back me up or not.
    That's the problem. Hell, I was actually trying to look at things in a good way, and sticking up for our defense while many were questioning the stats. Yes, we were #1 in goals against, and I fell for it. We are now right in the middle of the pack in goals given up. The problem at the time was the stats weren't proving out what many of us (myself included on this one) saw that the defense was looking shaky at times, but being bailed out by point blank misses, great saves, or just lunging desperate tackles. I just thought (hoped) that the defense would get stronger as the year went along. I was wrong.
    That's the problem. We've needed an attacking mid for years, but no one's been signed. We needed a forward for the last two years, and no one's been signed (well, Fernandez, but he was essentially loaned out immediately).

    For next year there's a solid core, but again ... depth! Here's next year's core, IMHO: Castro, Fernandez, Badilla, Parky (if he stays), Reis, Nyassi, Mansally, Dube, Red, Dread, Cristman, Twellman (?) and Ralston are the (mostly) definites. Other than that ... just a ton of question marks. Smith, Thompson, Tierney, Valentino, Germanese, Phelan … who knows with any of these guys?
    It took you this long to believe that?
     
  16. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW, I love that I got neg-repped for starting this thread (actually moving it out of the pre-game thread).

    Let's just hide our head in the sand folks ...

    I'm going outside to start singing Kumbaya, who's joining me! :rolleyes:
     
  17. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Will there be beer and steak tips?
     
  18. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    yes and I was agreeing with someone that stated that. However before Badilla, NIcol played the 4-4-2 mostly because of injuries or call ups, now with everyone basically healthy he wants to play it to get Badilla on the field, which is wrong. Get badilla on the field in a 3-5-2 and sit heaps or albright
     
  19. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. KATref

    KATref Member

    Dec 31, 2005
    Stow, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me, me I'll sing! (waving hand wildly) :p
     
  21. GOREVS3000

    GOREVS3000 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2006
    Boston
    Club:
    2 de Mayo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll bring the Smores
     
  22. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    funny thing is I believe badilla was actually playing Right back for Saprissa in a 3-5-2, at least that is what the Saprissa fans were saying
     
  23. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    If that's the case, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable putting out the following line-up:

    GK: Reis
    RB: Heaps
    CB: Parkhurst
    LB: Badilla
    DM: Joseph
    DM: Larentowicz
    RM: Mansally
    LM: Castro
    AM: Ralston
    FW: Twellman
    FW: Dube

    Granted, this takes Albright out of the equation, but Heaps has played the bulk of his career with the Revs at right back, and most recently (over the past few years) alongside Parkhurst in the 3-5-2. I'd like to see Nicol go back to this for a game as I believe Heaps and Parkhurst are more effective playing with each other in this alignment as opposed to a 4-4-2 with Albright out wide.

    Playing Badilla at right back in a 3-5-2 might make him feel more comfortable, perhaps giving him more space to work with out wide. At Saprissa he apparently liked to push forward into the attack from a defensive position, and if so, it might not hurt to pair him up out wide with Castro: their shared language and a similar playing style might allow them to link up in some ways that could stretch opposing defenses, but each of them would need to be consistent in getting back on defense when the play's in transition.

    Mansally seems like a logical choice wide right, taking advantage of his speed and ability to draw defenders to him, with Nyassi able to come off the bench as a late attacking option, or, if Nicol wants a little more size and defensive ability out there, bringing on Albright.

    Overall I think this would make our back-line a bit more comfortable playing in positions they're more accustomed to, while giving the Revs the ability to move the ball well in transition or going forward, especially with Ralston in the middle playing the pivot to Castro and Mansally who can get the ball forward.

    Does this make sense to anyone else?

    The Magpie
     
  24. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    I seem to recall reading that Mansally was actually a left mid/forward with the U20 team.
    I would love to see him get a shot at left mid.
    I would like to see how this would work out
    ....................................Reis
    .....Albright...................Parky..............Heaps
    ....................Badilla.................Shalrie
    Nyassi.....................Ralston...................Mansally
    .............Twellman...............Dube
     
  25. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Re: 10/4 Revs v. Real Grass Salt Lake

    That could be entertaining to watch, especially with Nyassi and Mansally out wide. Don't know how I feel about having Badilla at d-mid though.
     

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