What's going on here?

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Oct 3, 2003.

  1. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    These perennial college soccer powers are off to slow starts.

    Indiana – five of the last six Final Fours, including two NCAA titles: 2-3-4

    Stanford – two straight Final Fours, last year’s runner-up: 2-5-2

    Creighton – two Final Fours the past three years: 3-3-2

    Connecticut – Two Final Fours the past four years, 2000 NCAA title: 3-4-2

    Virginia – five NCAA titles, 21 straight trips to the NCAA Tournament: 4-5-0

    Is there a trend here is it coincidence or is this a sign of a shift?

    My hunch is it’s just a hiccup and that all these programs will bounce back, some, or maybe all, before the NCAA Tournament starts. But, at the same time, it’s weird to see them all doing so badly this far into the season.
  2. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    S'nM: nice list...i'd add the duke snooties to the list, as they normally have a respectable side. of these, i'd consider uva to be a bubble team for the ncaa's because their upcoming schedule has 6-7 possible w's, and the rest to be on the outside when ncaa tournament designees are announced - meaning that i don't think they can bounce back this year.

    i kind of like the shift from the perenials because it gives lots of programs the opportunity to gain more fans and promotes the game to a broader audience.
  3. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I already mentioned this in another thread but I suspect it's the new sub rule.

    For instance, a coach of a powerhouse team goes up 2-0 and starts subbing at 60 minutes. Then around minute 80 he realizes he subbed two players too many. Now that there is no re-entry, the better players can't go back in and turn the tide.

    At the end of the year I'm going to compile the scoring times of ACC league games and see if there have been a lot of late goals.
  4. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    IMO, it's not the sub rule. It's the fact that there are many more good players out there, and they all can't go to Indiana, SMU, UVA, or Stanford. Our country is producing some good young players...and since we don't have a pro/club system to develop players, kids are forced to go the college route. I guess you'd say it's parity.
  5. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Similar to what's happened to college basketball, where the "mid-majors", or the soccer equivalents, have become forces to be reckoned with in their own right.
  6. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My experience with several years of "regional ID camps" suggests that this is true. Looking at most regional pools, basically there are 3 -5 "National pool" players who anyone could recognize as the highest quality watching them play for 10 mins, 10 others who really stand out, than another 30 -40 top quality players who are nearly indistinguishable. Only 24 or so make the regional team leaving several dozen (times 4) other ODP players that never get this recognition.

    The "regional players" get into the big name schools but there's probably 100 other player out there every year who are every bit as good or better.
  7. lastword

    lastword New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    College Park, MD
    Luvvy, wow! i thought you had something upstairs. You just blew that theory. Please tell me you don't think good college coaches are not smart enough to manage a rule change regarding substitution that is so easy to manage? this has to be one of the dumbest posts ever, aside from Sandon's biased bullsh... Please do not post any mor ignorant Terp like posts.
  8. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In defense of the Ivy League--Brown and Yale together account for 6 of those "upset" games. Are they really "upsets?" There is usually at least one outstanding team in the Ivy League as well as 2-3 excellent teams in addition. Yet, almost every year (and this year was no exception) there is not an Ivy League team listed in the preseason top 25. Not always the case, I admit. Nevertheless, it becomes a de facto upset whenever a team not in the top 25 defeats one of the ranked teams. The bottom line is that most of the Ivies are good to excellent year in and year out despite the fact that they don't give athletic scholarships. They can't quite make to the very top because of the extreme rarity of the truly exceptional scholar athlete.

    By the way, has anyone seen Adom Crew play for Brown? Just curious. I haven't, but it sounds as if he has great credentials.
  9. Mike Fekula

    Mike Fekula Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    It's the 9.9 'ships per team....

    As long as the NCAA continues to limit Men's Soccer to 9.9 scholarships per team, and as long as the prep, club, and ODP programs continue to pump out the talent in ever larger numbers, it will be increasingly impossible for the top teams to stockpile and hoard all the best players.

    Plus, I have heard numerous club coaches say over the years that there have always been a fair number of good players that get overlooked by the major D1 programs; some just fell through the cracks but there is also a very large number of latino kids, working class white kids, etc. who cannot afford ODP and get looked over, etc etc.

    So there apparently are good players to be had everywhere, if the coaches are willing to go out and find them.

    FlashMan was right when he pointed out the same trend in Men's Basketball; I also cover Women's D1 Basketball at Maryland and it is the same deal there. In hoops, you get all these recruiting services now that publish their Top 25, Top 50, Top 100 blah blah blah lists every year and half the time, they miss good players too.

    Maryland won the NCAA Men's Hoops title two years ago and their two best players, Juan Dixon and Lonnie Baxter, were never rated higher than Top 75-100 on any prep list. On the current Maryland Men's Soccer team, the best players include guys like Seth Stammler who was all-state in Ohio, but not an All-American; Clarence Goodson was a Washington Post All-Met from Northern Virginia, but he was no A-A either; neither was Kenney Bertz, Jason Garey, Ian Rodway, or Michael Dello-Russo, and they are all regular contributors.

    The recruiting lists are fun to read and OK for information as far as they go, but it ain't the whole story.
  10. ctsoccer13

    ctsoccer13 Member+

    Mar 25, 2002
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the case of Connecticut it has nothing to do with the sub rule. It has more to do with losing a good graduating class and inexperience. They'll bounce back, but probably not this year.
  11. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    ...i think just like the rest of us grunts, college coaches and their recruiting habits have up and down swings that produce good and bad results. the result of a down swing is that the side won't compete as well against another team that is on the up cycle. this is especially true now since the popularity of soccer is producing better skilled players and those players have many more options today than in years past.
  12. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    AFC Ajax
    who cares? st louis university is 7-1-2 and they are the most traditional power of all
  13. Noonan

    Noonan New Member

    Dec 16, 2001
    I think there are also more and more players who are going pro either before college or after a year or two of college. 10 years ago, a player like DeMarcus Beasley would have gone to Indiana, Convey to Virginia, etc. So in addition to better players at the "bottom" of the pool, you have the cream of the crop cut off from the traditional powers.

Share This Page