What do you guys think the starting lineup should be of course assuming all players are healthy(like that will happen lol)? Mine would be an attacking 3-5-2 GK Kahn LCB Metzelder CB Nowotny RCB Freidrich DM Hamann LM Boehme RM Deisler CM Ballack OM Schneider(playmaker) CF Bobic CF Neuville or Kuranyi This is scary team when healthy. The defense would be very solid as all of them are tall and pretty quick as well. Hamann is one of the best defensive midfielders in the world when healthy. Ballack could sort of linger around in the midfield as he usually does. I dont really consider him an all out playmaker, more of an attacking goal scoring midfielder. Schneider fits the playmaker role much better. The wings would be very strong with Deisler and Boehme, also Schneider could drift along the right and cross as well. Bobic is still deadly at poaching. The only position that I am not sure about is the other Forward. Klose has been in horrible form since WC but if he gets good service he can be deadly, Neuville is not really an all out finisher, more of a winger. Kuranyi has very little experience but is very talented, as is Lauth. What do you guys think?
I would agree with your line up, with the following exceptions: Boehme on the left - In a 3-5-2 system, the outside players have to have exceptional skills both defensively and offensively. While his offensive abilities are great, Boehme's defensive skills are lacking, and he has said so himself. Boehme has said that Rudi's 3-5-2 system does not suit him. He would be good in a 4-4-2 system, where there is a left sided defender. Nowotny and Deisler - Talent-wise, these guys are no-brainers. But they have both had long term, multiple knee injuries. So their long term health and form are very much in question. If these guys can manage to stay healthy and be at their top form, then absolutely, include them. Otherwise, alternatives need to be considered. I very much like Friedrich and Rau as the outside mids in Rudi's 3-5-2 system, since they are young and dynamic and good both defensively and offensively. If Nowotny can't go, then Woerns, Baumann, Ramelow are good options.
Thats a good point about boehme jeff, actually now that I think of it I agree with you that Rau would be better on the left side. It's a shame though because Boehme is such a good attacker and he kind of goes to waste with Germany. Another option would be Ziege but these days I think Rau is better. Speaking of German left sided players, am I the only one who would like to see Bierofka be called up? As far as right sided midfielders I would rather see Deisler or Schneider in that position thatn Freidrich. Freidrich is a awesome but I dont think he brings as much attack as the other two. Better to let him play in defense where he can still make the occasional run forward. What about forwards? Who do you think should play along side Bobic?
I don't agree with your basic question as I think you always got to consider the current shape of the players. I am strictly against rewarding any player with a firm regular starting spot. The thought of a NT is to dress the currently best players of the nation and not the potentially best ones. Also, you shouldn't play with a strict system, but be able to vary. My team right at the moment would be: Lehmann - Friedrich, Wörns, Baumann, Rau - Schneider, Ballack, Ernst, Tarnat - Bobic, Kuranyi Deisler is an option if he improves during the next time. Then I'd change to 3-5-2, take Baumann out, move Schneider to the center and Deisler on the right mid position. Metzelder is an must-starter when he cures his injury. In the basic 4-4-2 he would replace Baumann. A healthy Hamann would have to replace Ernst on the defensive mid position. Freier will be more than an alternative after his injury, but for starting him you would have to change 3-5-2, otherwise he's kind of no 1 backup for every mid position. Lauth, Klose and Neuville are the forward alternatives. Especially the forwards require a good shape for their play. Nowotny's return would be more than important as he and Metzelder in normal shape are the perfect central defence (and finally we could remove Wörns from the starting team...)
I think Bierofka is great. He would be a great alternative on the left side. He just needs to get regular starts with Bayer, and thus more experience, then he'll be ready to shine for Germany. Right now, I like Kuranyi along with Bobic. Klose is far too one-demensional, is in bad form right now, and most of his goals for Germany have come against very week opponents like Saudi Arabia and Israel. Nueville is very good, but I agree with you in that he is better suited as a winger, or an attacking mid. Lauth reminds me of a young Klinsmann, but needs more seasoning and needs to be with a better team. I like Kuranyi's game a lot. He is very clever, creative, skillfull, athletic and is getting lots of good experience with a very good team. I think Kuranyi and Bobic make a fine pair, since Kuranyi is such a creative forward, and Bobic is such a good poacher.
I also agree with Olaf. It is silly to speculate on what the "ultimate" starting eleven would be, giving certain players authomatic preference. It should be based on who is playing well at the present moment, and who's healthy. That being said, it is still lots of fun to speculate. Here in America, people talk ad naseum on sports talk radio about what their starting line up would be for their favorite team. I found it interesting that Olaf included Michael Tarnat. I always thought that Tarnat was a fine player who got buried at Bayern, behind Lizurazu. Now he's shining for Manchester City. I'm very glad for him. Tarnat has an awesome left foot, is good with the ball, is a great tackler, and a can pass with accuracy. Ernst also intrigues me. I've seen him a time or two with Bremen, along with Bremen's mostly international line up.
I dont agree with Tarnat, he is a good player and I wouldnt mind him being in the squad but I dont think he should start over someone like Rau. Tarnat is getting older while Rau is a player for the future. Maybe in a 4-4-2 Tarnat would fit in better but I prefer Rau in a 3-5-2.
Tarnat has always been very talented and he'd have lots of caps for the NT if he hadn't accepted tons of money for sitting on Bayern's bench. He should have signed with a worse team for the sake of playing time instead. But that's also speaking against his character if you prefer money over soccer...
It always boils down to money, doesn't it? Well, Tarnat is learning that lesson. He's probably making less money with Man City, but getting playing time and flourishing. Maybe he's now reflecting on his career and thinking "What if?" ...
Starting 11 My look would be as follows: (assuming no injuries) Kahn Frings, Nowotny, Metzelder Deisler, Hamann, Ballack, Schneider, Rau Kuranyi, Bobic Possible additional inclusions/substitutes: GK - (Youth) Hildebrand D/M - (Experienced) Linke; Ramelow; Kehl; Jeremies (Youth) Freier; Bierofka; Ernst; Feulner F - (Experienced) Neuville (Youth) Lauth I feel that there are two main problems with the Nationalmannschft. The first being no clear choice of strikers or depth at that position. There are no longer any German strikers that are feared at the international level. The second being enough young players brought into the line up. Finally, I believe that having Kahn as captain is also a key error. The team has been lacking for a field general to keep the tempo of the game's intensity high. Kahn is too far removed. Any thoughts? Please realize that I understand that this line up will never be possible due to the fact that many of the players I have listed have injuries that could potentially exclude them from international football in the future (i.e. Deisler, Nowotny, Hamann). However, the only one I think is in true danger is Nowotny...
Re: Starting 11 I agree with on Kahn. I don't think he makes a good captain. I think this for the same reason you gave, but also because Kahn is pretty tempermental, and quite a controversial figure. At this point I would go with Ballack. He is undoubtedly Germany's best player right now, plus he has a good head on his shoulders. I probably would not go with Frings as a defender. While he is certainly capable, his natural position is midfield. Perhaps Friedrich would be a better choice for the third defender.
I dont think Frings would fit well in a 3 man defense, I would prefer Friedrich. As Captain like Jeff said, I would probably go with Ballack or maybe Hamann. If Nowotny ever gets back he would be good as well. Not sure about Kuranyi and Bobic up front, there wouldnt be much pace up front, Klose, Lauth and Neuville are all very fast while Kuranyi and Bobic are big and kind of slow. Maybe better to partner one forward with a smaller one.
Frings reasoning Jeff & Mehr, I did agree with both of you when I initially started my line up, however if you refer back to WC 2002 Frings was listed in the back four for the final against BRA (probably to shut down R. Carlos) and the semi v. KOR. In other games he was listed on the right mid position but naturally dropped behind Schneider as play developed. I agree that Frings is a natural mid, however he has proven versatile enough in major tournaments to fill in defensively. I definitely had an oversight by leaving Freidrich out of the frame... As for the forwards, my speed is located on the outside flanks in midfield to serve the larger targets like Ballack, Kuranyi, Lauth, and Bobic. Neuville can be brought in to provide pace if the set up is too slow, however he has a tendency to drift outside too much. He leaves the middle of attack bare and may clog up outside build up. I like him in any other line up, however his style does not fit my tactics. As for Klose, the worst thing for the national team was the demolition of the Saudi team. I think Klose's performance in that game elevated him too far up the depth chart. I know many fans are all looking for the next Klinsmann, but I don't think that Klose is that player.
Mcweiss I agree that Frings definitely could fit into a 4 man defense as a sideback....in your original post I understood that you meant Frings should play as a centerback which I dont think would work that well. About Klose, I agree that he was very much overated after the WC but these days I think people tend to underate him. He has shown that when he gets service he is a deadly finisher and he hasnt really been getting this on the NT or with his club. He seems to be off to a decent start this season though. He is a bit like Bierhoff was. Capable of scoring tons of goals when setup well but invisible when not. I have to say that a German NT with all players healthy is a damn formidable team. The only weak spot really is the forward line which hopefully will change with Kuranyi and Lauth. The midfield is world class and should dominate most teams. Hopefully by Euro 2004 or WC2006 if we are lucky we will see this team!
with 100% health: ................kahn ..hinkel.....ramelow...metzelder .......frings........hamann schneider..................deisler ...............ballack .........klose.......kuranyi bobic deserves to start but i woould love to hold him as a sub i love how hinkel as progressed with stuttgart - he rarely gets mentioned and, IMO, undeservedly so as for kuranyi being a tad slow, he makes up for it with quick and nimble feet for a big man - plus he likes to come back and help the midfield and is a true gamer other key subs: freidrich, hildebrand, rau, kehl, bierofka, lauth
-------------Kuranyi-----Klose------------ Frings-------Ballack-----Hamann--Schneider Metzelder----Nowtony---Friedrich---Hinkel ---------------------Kahn-------------------
Just a dream: --------------Kuranyi---------Lauth------- ---Bierofka------Ballack-------------Deisler --------------------Hamann--------------- Rau------Metzelder-------Friedrich----Hinkel ------------------Kahn---------------------