What Would our Evaluators Think of a young Cuauhtemoc Blanco?

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by voros, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is an actual question as I don't really know the answer. All I can think of is Billy Beane's famous line "we're not selling blue jeans" when it comes to guys who don't look like what we assume a professional athlete would look like.

    Which of course is why I ask the question about Blanco. He is about as non-athlete looking a soccer superstar as I can come up with. Do our soccer evaluators pass up on guys like that due to their odd body type, or are we above that?
     
  2. matador11

    matador11 Member

    Jun 21, 2000
    South Florida
    I think it's a fair point. What exactly do our talent evaluators look for?

    When evaluating youth talent, I think it's imperative to look for the qualities that you cannot teach. Thus kids who always seem to be one step ahead of everyone else (i.e. high soccer IQ). Also kids who seem to have an incredibly deft touch of the ball (i.e. skill). And, lastly, kids who are faster and/or quicker than everyone (i.e. athleticism). You simply cannot teach these qualities. You either have them or you don't.

    Ideally the players would have all 3 qualities. More realistically, they are superior in one and good enough in the others. For example, Blanco clearly has a high soccer IQ as well as high skill level. While clearly not the most athletic guy on the pitch, he is athletic enough. To wit, he is fast enough and quick enough.

    The problem with too many of our youth players, IMHO, is that coaches/scouts fall victims to their "superior" athleticism to offset the moderate levels of skill and/or soccer IQ. So they opt for the player who often looks to be the fastest, albeit not the most skilled or smartest player, thinking they can be "taught" how to play. Of course since far too much of our youth soccer is played away from the talent rich urban centers, the level of athleticism at these suburban parks may be misleading.

    Hence the "superior" athlete may be able to outrun the kids at the club level but once he gets to international competition he is simply an average athlete with moderate skills and soccer IQ.

    Another problem is that many of the other popular American sports, the requisite "skill" is actually easier to teach. That's because sports like football, basketball, and baseball all require hand-eye coordination much more than foot-eye coordination. The latter is much harder to develop because, frankly, rarely do we use it in our everyday lives. So indeed the American youth sports mentality that stresses athleticism over skill is a valid one for all other sports, except soccer.

    So, in a very long winded way of answering your question, I'm not sure our current crop of youth coaches/scouts would be astute enough to quickly identify the talents of a Blanco. Though his play on the field may merit some recognition, I believe he is the type of player that would fall through the cracks in our current system.
     
  3. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    I remember Blanco as a 19-YO player with America and Necaxa and he was clearly a major talent then and athletic enough to be considered a top future prospect.

    So, of course, the US coaches would turn him into a defensive midfielder.
     
  4. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Being Mexican, our talent-evlauators would have either dismissed him for a lack of work rate or he wouldn't have been evaluated at all because he wasn't in the ODP pipeline.
     
  5. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    I'm curious abt the rationale behind the first post. Considering the technical ability of players at the top level, if a player has international level talent, wouldn't it be immediately apparent that he's on a different level when compared to other good young players?

    Filippo Inzaghi comes to mind as a player with no obvious athletic abilities in the areas of strength, speed, aggression etc. But when we see a young Inzaghi playing with other good young players who may be very athletic, wouldn't he appear to be a clearly superior talent?

    So how can such a player slip through the selection process?
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    The level of athleticism is better than people believe. My son ran the fastest 100 meters in the State at age-group Junior Olympics 2 years ago. Those weren't exactly suburban park kids in the track meets, he was the only white kid in any 100 meter race that he entered.

    He was the 3rd fastest player on his club team that autumn. And he didn't make the grade at forward one year later for the Regional ODP squad in part because he lacked breakaway speed.
     
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Sandon, that might have been true 5 or 10 years back, but the ODP ranks are loaded with Hispanic players now. Must be near half of Region III and IV kids are Hispanic, even in Region II there are plenty, for example 5 of the 8 Illinois players at my son's age group.

    They were unlikely to have picked Blanco if he were born in the second half of the year and not physically mature for his age, though. It is the rare player indeed who overcomes those hurdles.
     
  8. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I'm getting at with Blanco is his body type.

    If you saw him in a bar or a grocery store or something and someone asked you to guess his occupation, you'd be far more likely to guess "plumber" than professional athlete.

    For the longest time in baseball, there was a scouting problem whereby if a guy didn't look like a major league baseball player, then the scouts didn't believe he ever was going to be one, regardless of what he was currently doing at lower levels. A prime example is Brian Giles: built more or less like Blanco, he never once made one of the famed Baseball America Top 100 Prospects lists despite performances in the minors better than many players making the very top of those lists. Giles got lucky in that he threw up around a .360 in his first major league trial (with a team smart enough to give him a chance) and that got him more time to eventually establish himself. He eventually made two All-Star teams and is currently making about $8 million as a 36 year old and a shell of his former self.

    My question is whether this discrimination against the short, stocky and barrel chested exists in American soccer to the point where someone with Blanco's talents might get ignored simply because he looks (superficially) like he eats pizzas for a living. That in actuality Blanco is in as good condition as any player his age in the league is something we only come to realize because (like Giles now) he's already proven he has the goods.

    In other words do U.S. soccer scouts sell blue jeans or find soccer players? I don't recall a whole bunch of odd looking body types for our big prospects. A few abnormally skinny guys (like Beasley), but no Hack Wilson type endomorphs despite the fact that there's got to be some out there (like Blanco or I suppose Maradona) who can really play.
     
  9. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I keep hearing this, and I know the facts bear you out, but I'm still waiting to see it translate to a greater presence of Latinos on our national teams and in MLS.

    I don't disagree that there has been progress, but when I see so few Hispanics on the U20 and U17 WC rosters, particularly Mexican-Americans, it continues to raise a red flag.
     
  10. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The current U17s have Garza, Dominguez and Cruz. The U20s had Arguez and in the qualifying tournament also had Villanueva. Against Sweden, we started Bocanegra, Feilhaber, and Bornstein (Mexican mother).
     
  11. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I wonder how long it will take before Mexican-Americans make not only their playing presence felt, but their coaching presence as well.

    We can shoehorn some Mexican-American players that also have traits US coaches value into teams, but can you imagine how dramatically different a Mexican coach would handle player selection and tactics for a US youth squad?
     
  12. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Pippo is actually very fast for a striker, although he doesn't run with the ball as often but instead uses his speed for the off-the-ball runs.

    I'd say that Inzaghi would be a more athletic version of Preston "Der Bubi Sturmer" Zimmerman and would have no problems fitting it.

    Sandon, do you recall what one of the Mexican kid players said on the YA's recently?

    He tried out with Dallas but found that the team set a certain minimum athletic standard and he was never going to run as fast as other kids. In Mexico - and we certainly see it from Superliga - the speed standards are much lower than in MLS.

    BTW, a more interesting question wouldn't be about Blanco, who has a terrific ball control and passing abilities, but someone like Benjamin Galindo, who seemingly had no redeeming athletic or soccer qualities ... unless you needed someone to make about 15 perfect through-passes each game. He may not have survived the US Youth system that insisted on a "quick one touch-two touch" ball.
     
  13. futgod

    futgod Member+

    Nov 28, 2006
    NorCal
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Maybe i misunderstood your point but, Galindo is one of the most skilled players ever to step onto a soocer pitch in Mexico. We dont call him "El Maestro" for nothing.
     
  14. dumpnrun

    dumpnrun Member

    May 30, 2006
    I always thought Blanco was overated until I saw him playing with the Fire. He was usually surrounded with a good cast of players at CA, but with the Fire and playing in MLS, he blatantly stands out.

    Given our current method for picking the creme de la creme, it would have been a crap shoot whether he would have been discovered. Half the elite coaches out there know how important soccer IQ is, and they would have loved him. The other half look at physical attributes first and would have ignored him. I guess it depends on who you impress.

    There seems to be a notion that US soccer coaches just look for the athletic types and ignore the more cerebral player. My personal observations, although not scientific, lead me to believe that group is fairly evenly split along the athletic/ mental line. Org theory would say that this is inevitable as the dialectic forces of homogeneity and differentiation would force this type of distribution. In other words, most groups have a fairly even distribution of conformists and non-conformists. But that's a topic for another day.
     
  15. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Galindo was the smartest guy on the pitch ... but he wasn't big, he wasn't especially strong, he didn't bunny-hopped like Blanco ... and the real question is whether he would have ever fit in with the US Youth style soccer.

    And I say he wouldn't.

    There's the tragedy.
     
  16. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All top soccer talents in the USA should be required to take 4 years of Kung Fu. You think I'm kidding, but I'm not. Soccer balls don't have legs and don't move independently of the initial force imparted to them when kicked (until they hit something). Humans move in all sorts of funny and unexpected directions, and each kick has a different foot position (designed to keep you from breaking your foot) and is intended for a different target area on the body. These add up to incredibly complex moves that change from second to second while sparring.

    As an added bonus, the players we head-butted wouldn't get back up. No one would mess with our national team.
     
  17. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've cornered the market on soccer-playing Latino Jews. All the more reason to look forward to the inevitable US-Iraq matchup in the Confed Cup 2009.
     
  18. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    All Kung Fu**** should be required to take 4 years of soccer.

    On a serious note, there's really one way to teach skills - "Give them the damn ball".
     
  19. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Forget Kung Fu. Samba man. Samba lessons from 5 years and up.

    Yes, and lots of soccer too. Just throw a ball out there, and the ol' white guys can sit in the car and watch (and shut up)
     
  20. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    wuts wrong with old white guys?
     
  21. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Really, I have no idea if Blanco would be selected by the USMNT talent scouts or not.

    What I do believe is, we have 1 or 2 (and probably more) U17s who have decent athleticism, and who can see the field and make penetrating passes for our runners. I don't know this team doesn't seem to have them, but they surely exist. It's not conceivable that there are none in the U.S. I do not believe that.

    It's gotta come down to coaching & tactics. We have dribblers, and runners, and athletes, but there just doesn't seem to be room made for playmakers.
     
  22. izha

    izha Member

    May 24, 2002
    Can Messi switch?
     
  23. ClarkC

    ClarkC Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Virginia
    Count me in the group around here who is sick of all the anti-white racism of posts like this one.
     
  24. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bornstein stole my juice!!

    [​IMG]
     
  25. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's interesting to look at the success rates of Bradenton kids based on their ethnic background. The ones from non-immigrant families more than hold their own. There's a lot of Memo Gonzalez and Raul Palomares types out there who were big news at the time and have dropped off the face of the Earth since.

    A key bit of understanding the problem is that:

    Mexican-American Kids != Mexican kids

    In terms of their soccer development. Mexican kids have a whole bunch of aids to their development that Mexican-American kids don't have, and so it's dangerous to assume their soccer educations are somehow equivalent.
     

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