What do you lot think the FA will do now that an inquiry for the Man U - Arsenal match has been launched. Suspensions? Fines? Do you think a points deduction a-la 1991 is possible? Pundits here in the UK seem to think so Not asking what they "should" do, rather what you think they "will" do?
Fines maybe, Points deducted never The FA wont be deducting points from Arsenal for sure, but may impose a suspended suspension? on Keown and Parlour for they're last knockings at the filthy cheat RVN. Dont forget David Dein is a major player at the FA.......
I think 1-3 game bans as well - with the harshest penalties going to Lauren, Cole, and Keown (probably 3 games for violent misconduct) interesting to see what will happen to Lehmann and Parlour Everybody seems to be dismissing the possiblity of a points ban - but the tone of the UK media is beginning to turn to "is this the right example for kids" - I personally think a points ban is still possible especially given Arsenal's historically poor disciplinary record - which if you remember in 91 was taken into account - the extra point was deducted for the historical reasons in addition to the OT brawl Arsenal is really taking it on the chin in the UK media, even from ex-players (e.g., Wright and Smith) - should be very interesting to see what the FA does
Lehmann pushed the linesman away. Even touching an official is usually a serious offence so I'm not sure what will happen to him particularly as he was screaming in the ref's face as he tried to book and send off Vieira.
DiCanio got 12 games for his little shove, right? Not quite the same but if Lehmann did push the official he should get a lengthy ban. I'd be surprised if the FA didn't agree. b.
Just posted on SoccerNet... http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=278295&cc=5901 On the Arsenal side, the club itself, Wenger and 6 players have been charged (Lauren, Keown, Parlour, Lehmann, Cole and Vieira). On the ManU side, Giggs and Ronaldo were charged. Lauren, Keown and Parlour face the most serious 'violent behavior' charges. Lauren also faces 3 other charges.
I'll preface this by saying I haven't seen the match yet. I'm recording it tonight. Fines and bans for the players and are pretty much assured, but when? As for a points reduction, it's becoming a real possibility, but I don't agree with it. As with my kid, I try not to take away something already earned. Makes him think he shouldn't try to accomplish something if I'm only going to take it away next time he screws up. He just continues to behave badly. The bans can have the same effect as a points reduction if they are timed correctly. Additionally, taking a way points and putting them into the position of dropping points due to key player bans isn't fair either. If bans are put into effect all at once, Arsenal might have difficulty beating Wolves, for all the key players gone. If they are staggered (which I don't think should happen), then the possiblity of a points loss is minimal. If Lehmann is guilty of pushing an official, 12 games seems light!! My vote, bans for the players found guilty with immediate effect once the appeals process for each individual is complete, and the process should be swiftly scheduled. The team should be fined and not allowed to strengthen their teams thru player loans or additional signings of free agents. If they win, they've earned it, if they lose, they've earned it. Seems fair to me.
good post Alan V. you may be disappointed to see that RVNs head wasn't chopped clean off by Keown/Lauren and Parlour but he clearly was jostled and "hit" (and I use the term guardedly as there didn't look to be punches thrown but certainly contact was made). I'll be interested to hear what you think after you view it, now that you've heard all the hoopla.
Well, I didn't get it recorded. Did something wrong and got a UEFA game between Birm. City and somebody. I did get to see the last 12 minutes of time plus injury time, all the fireworks. My take. Ruud went up for the ball but Patrick didn't. Ruud had his eyes on the ball the whole time, and didn't APPEAR to do anything wrong. In fact, Viera almost seemed to 'low bridge' him. Viera lying on the ground reached out with his foot and Ruud reacted. If you only saw this on replay, it was slo-motion and it makes it look like his reactions took forever. In real time, it appears more normal. Thing is, one replay is from over Bennett's shoulder and he is looking right at them with an absolute clear view of everything. He went to the area only after Viera's missed kickout. At this time, it appears as if 'no foul' was in his mind. Viera's second yellow card was (more than) justified, but I don't know why Ruud got one, other than to appease Arsenal and calm things down. As for the penalty/dive by Forlan, the replays I saw don't show enough to make an honest assessment, as they focused on the 'foul' too late. The play was a Giggs cross from the far right and it only showed the end of the cross. It didn't show what happened int the box leaking up to when the ball got there. Showed two different angles and I couldn't see enough to call it either way. I'm not so sure how severly Lehmann s/b penalized. The a/r had his arm out and Lehmann simply pushed it aside to gain clearance to walk away. Whatever, there appeared to be no malice in his actions. If I'm Wanker (Wenger) though, I 'suspend' Keown, Parlour & Lauren for this weekend's game, which I believe is Leicester (?) or some other bottom feeder. A gamble that the FA will see the team taking action and reduce whatever punishment they give out to those players. Viera's and Lehmann's actions won't be affected by such a step. I would hope that this would show commitment to correcting the discipline record and reduce the liklihood of a points reduction. A benefit would also be that the FA may count that suspension towards whatever ban they impose on the players to 'time served.' Other than his comments about Ruud, Wanker is responsible for the teams actions on the field, and while he's not listed by the FA, I would impose a touchline ban on him for not exerting control over his players, and for not correcting what appears to be a continuous teamwide disciplinary problem. I realize they're 50 yards away, but they are his responsibility. Same as the President of a company going down for the poor performance of his employees.
Van Nistelrooy fouled Vieira, no question. I haven't seen anyone question that it was a foul. Vieira reacted stupidly and got a deserved yellow card. The fact that he had already been cautioned made it even more stupid. I agree, in real time or on replays you can;t really tell if it was a foul or not. What I will say is that Keown didn't really complain about the decision which tells its own story. Lehmann will get a ban, of that I'm sure. As it wasn't really a shove on the linesman I'd expect it to be no more than three games. Whatever, you can't put your hands on an official. Again, stupid. No chance of Wenger unilaterally suspending players. I'm sure he'll be defending them as vigorously as he can and he'll appeal any bans that are handed down. I think that the FA woulod see any pre-emptive suspending of players for whta it is, a sham designed to pick and choose which games they miss. Touchline ban? Why? You say yourself he's fifty yards away. If he leaves his technical area he's accosted by the fourth official, what's he meant to do? He is responsible for the performance of his players, being a football manager is possibly the most cuthroat business there is. If the board think he can;t do the job he'll be out, don't worry about that.
Lauren will get 4 games. Keown and Parlour 3 games. Everyone else will get 1 game. Wenger will be fined for his comments on RvN. Arsenal will be hit with a record fine and somekind of points deduction suspended pending any further misconduct. I personally think Arsenal could lessen the blow by disciplining the players internally. If they fight these charges they will get the book thrown at them. Its on video for crying out loud. Addiotnally, Martin Keown should be sentenced to wear a balaclava because he scares children and Ronaldo should be forced to cut those stupid strands out of his hair. Wenger should be made to seek therapy for paranoia and denial.
Apparently he's had a meeting with the players this week about their discipline. Hopefully the message will get through. We have a squad good enough to win the league, but suspensions will hurt us again.
Sorry to disappoint you A tad bit late to post comments? I did some research! 1. FA looks into the history of the row in question and decides to take further action upon such evidence. Keown is in hot water. He slapped van Nisty on the face, at old Trafford last season, when neither one had the ball. He was accused of violent misconduct then, fined a miserable day's wages, but given a WARNING. Wenger (Wanker) hasn't been charged yet on this row, only the club! FA is waiting for his written explanation on why he called Van a Cheat. Based on these 2 facts, question is will the FA take a hard-line action by sanctioning the club a nifty penalty and points deducted, and thus, send a message to all clubs that Hooliganism on and off the pitch is unacceptable. Or, which is what I think they'll do, After Wenger presents evidence on tape to defend his side, that the FA will let them off easy, with the typical suspensions. 2. Players' suspensions: Man United have a good case with Giggsy and Cris to prevent the FA from taking any action against them. And if they succeed, Lehmann will be off easy as well. These 3 acted on behalf of other teammates after being shoved around, and Lehmann's case would be contested as equally non-violent as Giggsy's. A lot depends on what Man United do, and so far, SAF has claimed he can get them off. Lehmann gets the one-match ban for taking the ref for a walk on the park. Patrick doesn't have a chance, refusal to leave the pitch is too common with HIM in particular, but within the whole sport in general, so he will get a 3 match ban. If the FA point the finger at him as prime instigator, he may get up to twice as much. Keown, if not proven innocent, faces a ban from football. Lauren is in same hot water, 4 charges against him, and in direct confrontation with Giggsy. If Arsenal cannot prove his innocence, he will be banned for the entire season - but the Arsenal board will take severe action, they can't afford a player on salary who isn't playing. This is the last season for both players, whatever action is taken, Unless Wenger plays the right cards with the FA and with the board. When Wood-Hill publicly states that he condemns these actions and under no circumstances supports his players, you know he means "bye-bye." Final consequence: Could be Wenger's last season too. You don't think the board has warned him? They have a horrible record! This is not the first time the club have come under scrutiny with the FA. The irony is that Man United are the only ones who can save Arsenal. If the FA really want to "take serious action," they would ban Giggsy and Cris first. Otherwise, they wouldn't have a case against the lesser offenders of Arsenal (Parlour, for instance, who has no history of misconduct and might get a one-match ban). Lastly, what did my stupid club do?! Say goodbye to any trophies, possibly lose a spot in Champs League next season, which means they lose the sponsors for the new stadium, and au revoir to my idols, and, well.... at least there still is Liverpool! FA or no FA involvement, this is serious trouble, from my point of view.
Some of you guys seem to have a real feel fo this sort of thing. I'm just a yank trying to use logic. Anyway, I've a cousin living in N.London (Arse fan) and he emailed me a link to an article in Sunday's Times with statistics about the disciplinary record under Wenger. Amazing. I haven't had a chance to go on line and read it, but the stats he sent have two points missing that are important as I see it. 1) How many points did Arsenal drop under AW in seasons where they didn't win the championship that could be directly related to missing Viera or other 'key' players? And if you add those points to that seasons total, does that make them champions that year? Example: Viera is banned and they draw with bottom third team 0-0 or 1-1. Or Campbell is missing and they lose or draw to a similar team in a low scoring game. More than reasonable to expect those players would have some effect on that score. 2) I don't know where he came from, but did AW's former employer have the same disciplinary issues during his reign? If so, he IS the problem.