To begin my answer to that question, I offer 3 quotes: "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." -- Jim Horning "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." -- Robert Kennedy "I have missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot, and I missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is precisely why I succeed." -- Michael Jordan In my mind, Tobin Heath has the ability (and the chutzpah) to become the next Marta. She's the only member of our team with the stones to try some of those crazy moves during an Olympic soccer game. And that creativity should be encouraged, not squelched. If Pia benches her now, it will snuff out what hope our country has for future women's soccer dominance. I say, have a strong talk with her about when and when not to try some of that highlight reel stuff, then throw her back out on the pitch. How does everyone else feel about this?
The next Marta is a bit of hyperbole, to my mind. It is a bit refreshing that she has the ability to try some of her moves, but she's not being very smart about where on the pitch or when to try them. No question she needs experience. She also needs discipline. One way to instill discipline is for there to be consequences. I say that when she plays irresponsibly, she should sit and have time to think about what she's doing. I also think this holds true for the rest of the team as well. Bad passes, bad first touches point blank shots that go 10 yards over the goal, boom ball, etc should be equally sanctioned. Lord knows, the way this team has been playing, Tobin won't have to sit long before her time comes around again.
It's disappointing she wasn't given enough chances to gain experience before the Olympics. She has the ability to transform the way the team attacks, but doesn't always make the best decisions. In a year or two she's gonna be a menace against her opponents.
As for gaining experience, Heath was on most of the rosters this build up year and (for a good while, at least) was Pia's standard 2nd half sub for Tarpley. She is young (just turned 20) and you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm not as in love with fancy ball moves as some. I like players that keep it simple and do the little things that lead to good play and the win. But, I know that the "wow" factor is needed sometimes. I find it interesting that there is a "what to do with heath?" question. Her play, while naive and at times really not smart, is far less troubling to me than some of the starters. Yes, I do wish she'd realize where she is on the field and in the game before pulling "playground" moves. And she's given some stupid fouls. But, we aren't relying on her to win the game.
Good point... and here's why I started this thread: There's been alot of talk on this board about how the current USWNT system of selecting players is not working and how our whole program has failed in its ability to find and nurture creative dribblers, passers and shooters. I've already decided that, even if we lose to Japan and then Germany/Brazil in the Bronze Medal game, we've accomplished as much as I expected to this summer without Wambach. Therefore, I'm already looking towards the 2011 World Cup. Here's all the players who will be under 30 years of age by the time that tourney comes around: Barnhart Buehler Chalupny Cheney Cox Heath Kai Lloyd O'Reilly Rodriguez Tarpley Out of that group, the only ones I see as being a "lock" for the 2011 USWNT are Chalupny, Heath, and Rodriguez. They are the nucleus around which our future should be built. The only "shaky" one of those three is Heath. So I think it's very important what we do with her, as I think it will set the tone as to whether we should expect the "same old, same old" out of our soccer leadership, or whether we can expect a sea-change in the thought process for selecting our future players. Do we want talented risk-takers, or do we want big, slow, boring bangers?
I don't concede Heath or Arod. Both have a long ways to go before you could build a team around either. Arod's got a good work rate, but her finishing rate is about 1/4 what a good forward's should be, and we all accept that Heath isn't there now - lotsa flash, not much real help to the team. What we really need to develop is players that can play within themselves, players who can just make the simple pass and not waste chances. If Heath can do that, THEN she can show off.
The next Marta? I'd rather she becomes the first Heath. Benching her now will not snuff out what hope our country has for future dominance. That is putting way too much on her shoulders. She has flair but she needs to learn when to use it. Am I the only one who thinks Marta's flair sometimes hurts the team? Watching the WWC final there were a few times the Brazilians had Germany confused, went for a cute dance with the ball then attacked an organized defense. Looks good when it works on a highlight reel not so good when your opponent is lifting the trophy. Heath will learn and hopefully WPS is where. What would I do with Heath? No comment.
No, in fact she doesn't. I've been watching Tobin since she showed up at UNC. I've been watching Marta since the 2003 WWC. It's an unfair comparison. There are very few Martas - ever. Marta at 17 was probably better than Tobin will ever be. But that's not an insult to Tobin. Tobin does have the chance to become a world class player. I hope she makes it. Tobin has a chance to become a player like Kristine Lilly. The steady, talented rock. She doesn't exhibit the unpredictability and vision that the magical players have. And few players every suddenly develop it in their 20s. Her mercurial teammate at UNC - Nogueira has the raw talent to develop into a truly special player. The question with Casey is her motivation and focus. But then I don't want to drag this thread off topic. I think Tobin is hitting her stride at the right time. (like Rodriguez and Cheney). Having a professional soccer league to move into directly after college will make these players better. Better competition and a cauldron of experimentation and results. What to do with Tobin? Get her into the WPS. That's what needs to happen with Tobin.
What to do with Tobin Heath? I've deleted my first few answers to avoid a restraining order and being banned on here. A-hem, now moving along, I look not to Marta, but to the men's game and one guy called Cristiano Ronaldo. Whoa now, hear me out. Now, Ronaldo was pretty much all flash (yes, very good at that) when he went to Man United, doing those step overs and flicks and spins, and then Ferguson worked on him, cut the fluff an focused it down into precision cutting player making him go from entertaining to flat out dominant. As mentioned she is twenty, which in our youth develop structure is still fairly raw. Work on her simplifying her game to go for more results oriented. I think she should spend time with a Tarpley to learn the position in terms of crossing, quick passes and knowing when you should not take on a defender (or two). So, there is my defense of Ms. Heath, young, talented, a bit raw, loads of potential and smoking hot (darn it! So close! )
Tobin tends to play better when in the game longer than 10 minutes, Once she settles down, she is a very good player... when nervous, it is simply a case of trying too hard to get into the game I say give her at least 45 minutes to play then make a judgement on what to do with her. I have seen her play for Naimo many times and she is simply really good.. one small tier down from O'Reilly
The way it normally works is you get more time by showing you can contribute something in your 10 minute chances. His first world cup, Messi only got 10 minutes at a time. He earned the rest.
Nah, The u23's. They have a better record. Only half joking on that one. Players are going to have to learn that their spots aren't secure if they don't perform. The u20's at least pass to each other. I will give credit to the WNT this last game. They started passing. The big test will come from Brasil. Will they continue doing that under the increased pressure that is sure to come? Or will they revert?
please do not compare tobin to marta - or to cronaldo. those players are triple threats. moves, quickness, speed. tobin only has moves at this level. she does not have the quickness and speed that stands out at the international level. i didn't say that she was not quick and fast. just not enough that stands out at the international level. nobody is a lock for 2011. players for the wold cup are usually decided by league play - now that we have it. league play will offer lots of surprises. some people who made the olympic squad will not be consistent in league play and will be left off the squad. names we have not even heard will make a statement for themselves in the next three years. the 2011 wwc squad will, i expect, have lots of surprises.
Whoa, wait, let me explain. Not in level, but in issue of style. What I am getting at is that a raw talented player with flash can be molded into effective brilliance. I think she could be managed and brought along to be a valuable winger to the US. Obviously I never meant she could be C. Ronaldo, I just was having trouble finding an example in women's game of a parallel so I went to the men's game. My point was I have faith that, if patient and worked with, she will be an asset for the US for years to come on the wing. That make sense?
That's what I was getting at. In the right system, I think she could be brought along to be extremely successful. Just not on the bench.
OK, if that's what you are getting at, then I'll accept it. I'm just saying there aren't any free rides anymore. Players need to earn what they get.
Not even remotely close to Marta. And that's not an insult to Tobin. It's a completely unfair comparison. Tobin is a completely different type of player with a different skill set.
I'm not saying to give her a free ride. This thread was my reaction to statements by more than one person in other threads that she shouldn't play another minute in this olympics. I really think that would not be productive at all. In fact, I think one option Pia has not taken advantage of is to bring in Heath at left mid, slide Tarp over to center mid, and take Lloyd out when she looks as gassed as she did in overtime against the Canadians in the second half. But again, I think benching Heath for the rest of the tournament at this stage of her career would be a mistake.
nobody is a lock for 2011. players for the wold cup are usually decided by league play - now that we have it. league play will offer lots of surprises. some people who made the olympic squad will not be consistent in league play and will be left off the squad. names we have not even heard will make a statement for themselves in the next three years. the 2011 wwc squad will, i expect, have lots of surprises.[/quote] I agree, i think the league will present us with a lot more intense competition for spots on the wnt and we will see names we haven't heard of or remember names we heard from college years, and players that got a half a look, if a look at all.. i'm excited! question... I apologize in advance, this probably could be put into it's own thread but to tie into the 2011 WC.. In the forums, people are always saying to develop our players at a younger age and letting them gain experience in big international tournaments like the four nations or pan am's etc... Obviously we are talking about Heath, she's already a young special player and with experience and time, she will dominate. and what to do with her, keep her playing. What other YNT players/college players do you think could possibly make an impact in the future of the WNT?
Why are you responding to me with that? Did I ever compare those two? No. I never compared Tobin to Marta, ever. I compared the development of a winger (yes, I picked Ronaldo, which I figured would cause alarm bells to go off) and how it is possible to develop a flashy player into an effective one. The opposite would be Denilson who continued to do nice dribbles, but never became a truly effective player. Look, last night on Olympics they compared the fact that both Phelps and Jordan used doubt from others as motivation. Now, swimming and basketball have little in common, but in that regard there was a parallel. Please re-read my posts and let me know if I am not conveying my point properly.
Point of order...WTF has Marta actually won on the field? Granted I haven't followed club team, but internationally it's nada, bupkus, zip from my memory. Getting back to Tobin Heath. She's not strong enough, fast enough or disciplined enough to be out there from what I have seen so far. Her substitution has brought the team's level down each time she has been put out there. This is not to say that she won't grow into it, but she is not ready for primetime playing with the big girls on the International scene. She needs to hit the weight and SPARQ training for another year or two.
Your memory seems a bit foggy. She won a 4-0 game in a world cup competition that knocked the US program back into the competitive stone age, from whence we have still not recovered. and she on the Pan Am games we said was important until we lost, then it wasn't. Oh yeah, there's the consecutive world player of the year awards. I'll turn the question around. What have we won since that drubbing? And don't bother quoting fifa world ranking to me. I'm talking real competitions that matter, not wins against Trinidad and Tobago.
No, she didn't totally screw up (cough, cough Markgraf back pass in the Norway game cough, cough). Tarpley is just much more effective than Heath at this point in time and if you put a body on Heath she cannot retain possession. Tarpley holds the ball, connects the front and back and can finish as well as having that "scorer's luck", too.