What to do when Center Ref gets injured?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by kevbrunton, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last week, I was injured during play -- I collided with a player and in the process came down on his foot and rolled my ankle. The next thing I knew, I was on my backside in a fairly high degree of pain.

    When I was injured, the ball was on the wing about to be crossed into the area. The next thing I knew it was at midfield and I have no idea what happened during that time. It was in the quadrant of my AR (a good one), so I'm sure he would have flagged something.

    By the time the ball was at midfield, I was up on one knee and was trying to decide what to do -- the team on my end had the ball and was moving up field. Fortunately for my predicament, the next pass went out of bounds and I blew the whistle and stopped my watch.

    After giving me a few minutes, I finished the last 4 minutes of the half, but didn't continue in the second half.

    I have two questions about this situation.

    1) What should I have done when I got injured? If I am down on the ground, should I just blow the whistle and stop play? Should I try to wait and see what happens letting my AR's "call" things for a short time?

    2) In this situation, it was a recreational high school league, so the other two referees just finished the game using the 2 man system. But what if it wasn't a league that allows 2-man, do you just pick up a club linesman? What if it was a sufficiently high level game where having a club linesman isn't really an option? What do you do?

    Thanks.
     
  2. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. ;)

    One would hope that the players would put the ball out of play for an injured official just as they would for an injured player. Short of that, do what makes sense. With club or inexperienced ARs I would tend to put a stop to play quickly. With experienced ARs I think that you did the right thing.
    Every league may have a different answer to that question. Some would require a match to be replayed, some would be accepting of a club linesman, some would prefer that the senior AR take over and not replace him/her, ... Really very league-specific.

    I hope that you are feeling better and up to the rigors of the remaining season.
     
  3. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with posts so far. With one ref down, and two left, I would propose, first to the ref team, and with agreement, then to the coaches, that the game continue with a two man, unless one of the teams has a certified ref that the other can agree to as a third official. The other option is to call the game, either as a complete game or to be replayed. Any action should be agreed to by both coaches and the ref team before restarting. If the coaches can't agree, then I end the game and report to the league.
     
  4. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regardless of the coach agreements, this is a sure way to get a match protested if the game is being played under the USSF/FIFA rules. Only National Federation rules (i.e. high school and some college) recognise the two-man as legal.
     
  5. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks. I am going to take a few weeks off and see how it goes. The High School / College season in the fall is the busiest time of the year, so at this point, I have to make sure I am completely healed by then. Anything else (other than passing my fitness tests this summer) is secondary. I should be OK for them because they are mid/late July.


    Yes, I agree with this. In this particular situation, it was a recreational league that specifically recognizes the 2 man system as acceptable.
     
  6. Scott Zawadzki

    Feb 18, 1999
    Midlothian, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To answer the question, I think that technically if there are 3 referees assigned, AR1 goes to the middle and you get a club linesperson the finish the game if another certified ref is unavailable.

    In the event that you have a 4th official, he would take over for any of the injured 3 officials if necessary.

    I'm not quite sure if this is "from the book", but it's the way I've always been told.

    Scott
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread has some strange timing, because this happened yesterday in a match I was involved in.

    It was our State Cup Finals, so we had four officials on every match. I was the 4th on this match (B17), and the CR went down (caught his foot on fieldturf as he back-pedalled after a PK call and fell on his shoulder). However, the SAR went in because I was the CR on the next match (B18). I moved to SAR and we continued without a 4th. The point of the assignments was to give a rest to the next CR by having him be the 4th on the previous match.

    Anyway, there were two things to learn from this. First, the 4th doesn't always move into the CR's role--it depends on the competition authorities guidelines. Second, always be prepared to assume the whistle if you are a SAR or 4th.
     
  8. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So here's a hypothetical question based on the fact that the CR can't account for some "missing time" (Mulder & Scully should be brought in immediately, I think).

    As the trailing AR, you notice that the CR has gone down and is not paying attention to the game (let's say he gets the wind knocked out of him and he's down on the ground). The play moves upfield (towards you as the trailing AR) and a long ball goes over the top to an offside attacker.

    Now standing near midfield and holding your offside signal is going to do nothing to (a) stop the play nor will it allow you to (b) closely monitor the play that develops near goal because you're supposed to be holding your position at the offside infraction.

    Do you reach in your pocket pull out your own whistle and blow play dead as the AR?

    Hmmm...
     
  9. donate_blood

    donate_blood Member

    May 30, 2003
    St. Louis
    Assuming there is no assigned fourth official to the game, I would recommend that if possible have the CR switch positions with one of the ARs.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm trying hard, but I can't think of any situation where a CR would be injured enough not to be able to continue in that capacity, yet still capable of functioning as an AR. Dropping from CR to 4th is one thing, but an official needs to be able to put in just as much effort as an AR as he does when he's a CR.
     
  11. donate_blood

    donate_blood Member

    May 30, 2003
    St. Louis
    A knee injury (which I've had more than once) is an example of an injury where one could run the line, but could have problems as CR.
     
  12. pkCrouse

    pkCrouse New Member

    Apr 15, 2002
    Pennsylvania
    I'd have to disagree db. My knees (and feet) take more of a pounding when I am an AR than when I am a CR, and I tend to cover a lot of ground as a CR.
     
  13. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    Just as a possibility, i suppose a bad cramp or a hamstring pull could make the sprinting that a center does impossible but still work as an AR. It would probobly have to be the kind of thing that a center could "play" through but wouldnt do as good a job. In that case would you still switch though?
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just of the opinion--as is pkCrouse it seems--that an AR can, and probably more than not does, do a lot more sprinting and sharp changing of direction than a CR usually does.
     
  15. new old man

    new old man New Member

    Jun 7, 2003
    SW US
    down and out?

    Once the CR is out of the play, so to speak, I would hope the presence of mind to sound the whistle would still remain. A game played w/o the ref might be fine, or could be a real mess. Upon entering the realm of the impaired, the first duty of the Center Referee should be to stop play and then let whomever remained determine the restart. This should not require the players to behave in a sporting manner, but simply be common sense. No advantage, no see the play out, long and hard whistle is the only realistic move.
     
  16. Grizzlierbear

    Grizzlierbear New Member

    Jul 18, 2001
    canada no it is not
    better to be fit and referee then referee to be fit!

    I agree you must be equally fit to to do either job properly. As a CR it simply shows up more. As an AR you can be more out of position and cheat towards the goalline. Granted not good mechanics but I often see ARs either cheat and thus are at angle to offside calls or fail to follow the ball out. Especially whe doing like 10 games in two days at tournaments. ;o) There is a good reason the older we get the younger the players need to be. Of course once we reach a certain age refereeing our peers is more our speed.
     
  17. donate_blood

    donate_blood Member

    May 30, 2003
    St. Louis
    I'll give you guys two examples.

    1. A buddy of mine was assigning games. I turned him down because I had sprained my ankle. A few hours before kickoff he call and says he has noone else to be the third official. I agree to do the game, but only if I don't to the middle.

    2. I went to a game as a referee mentor. I wasn't scheduled to officiate and I didn't want to since I had recently torn my ACL. One of the officials didn't show. I had brought my ref bag in case the referee I was mentoring had forgotten something. I put on my uniform and worked the line. I did ok as long as I put my weight on my good knee when I stopped.

    In both cases I was able to perform as AR, but there was no way I could do what it takes in the middle of the field.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Showing up at a match that needs a third official and being able to serve adequately as an AR, despite being injured, is one thing. Having someone in that AR's role, even if they are not at 100%, is certainly preferable to going without an AR. I agree with you on that point.

    However, taking yourself out of a CR's role because of injury, only to relocate to the AR's position is entirely different. On the one hand, you are telling the team's that you are incapable of running around the field to call their game. Yet, somehow you are still capable of sprinting up and down a line and accurately judging offside? No matter what the level of play is, players, coaches and spectators simply won't buy it.

    It's all about perception--never underestimate the power it holds. In the cases you cite, the players and team personnel didn't know you were injured. If you truly felt you could serve the game well as an AR, and your injury didn't clearly show, then I'm sure that you had no problems. However, in a situation where you clearly become injured during a match, and have to publicly give up the whistle to one of your assistants, it's very hard--and in my eyes wrong--to try to sell the notion that you are capable of serving as an AR. In my opinion, once a CR determine's he is unfit to serve as a CR, the only role he is capable of continuing in is that of a 4th.
     
  19. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    I'm trying to remember the logic behind the situation and what the Laws would allow for. I remember learning this spiel at some point but I may be mistaken. Bear with me as I write out the thought process -- this could get a little long-winded :)

    The LOTG simply require that a referee be present for the game, and that his role is defined by Law 5. However the LOTG does not state that there may be only one referee during the course of the match. The only thing of this matter that it specifies is that the match is indeed controlled by "a referee."

    This allows for games to have alternate officials fill in as the referee should the previous referee no longer be capable of fulfilling his duties. That much we know. Therefere the only real issue is of when do the powers transfer from one official to the next?

    The answer, again, is within the LOTG. Law 5 lists out the responsibilities of the referee. When a person is no longer capable of fulfilling those responsibilities, he can no longer be the referee. Therefore his powers transfer to the alternate official the moment he becomes incapacitated. The alternate official is the one decided upon based on league policy and the referee crew. In some instances it is the 4th official, in most others it is the Senior AR.

    Therefore, it would be perfectly acceptable for the "backup referee" to blow his whistle and stop play upon realizing his predecessor cannot continue. The powers transfer immediately, even if in the middle of play, and the restart would be a drop ball for "reasons not mentioned elsewhere in the LOTG."

    Now if anybody can make any sense of what I just wrote, please correct me if I'm wrong :)
     
  20. Grizzlierbear

    Grizzlierbear New Member

    Jul 18, 2001
    canada no it is not
    more than I thought in here

    I think it is logical Stateman. Maybe a point about having the 4th or senior AR actually carrying a whistle with them in person and not leaving it in their kit? In the pregame would you as CR ensure the senior AR position and 4th offical are indeed carrying a whistlel?

    I have been present when a referee was injured, obviously in pain he could not continue running but the whistle was not sounded as the attacking team was in on the opposing goal. Now the referee was too far away 40 + yards but allowed play to continue, not wanting to interfere with the attack relying on the AR perhaps to catch any activity that needed to be dealt with? A goal was scored , the referee gave his whistle to the senior AR and the he proceeded to manage the match. Using only 1 AR on the team "s side of the field to help with substitutions.

    I think allowing play to continue if injured is risky but awaiting for the next stoppage if you are in discomfort is one thing. But if truly incapacitated ie unconcious or on the ground writhing in pain. Since no whistle has sounded at what point where we all realize play should stop MUST it stop?

    If the team say scores a goal while the referee is writhing in pain some 40 yards back and the AR sees no infringements. DO we allow the goal to stand ? Especially as the defending team says we stopped play because the referee was injured?
    Can the AR say sorry fellows play was stopped as soon as the CR was injured? Or is it the same as in an injured player until it was realized as serious no whistle play on? Referees do occassionally stumble and fall but are only incapacitated for a few moments as they embarassed or not pick them selves up and continue leaving any infrinements that might have occured to the interpretation of the ARs or 4th?

    But lets say the CR injured goes down and is out but not realized yet by everyone play continues with a brutal foul unseen by the CR . Obviously the AR if he sees it could raise his flag but since the referee is not rising to his feet it now is apparant play must be stopped. The thing is how is it stopped and what is the restart? Assuming the 4th or senior AR has a whistle should they blow? Would the new referee restart with a DFK and issue a card for misconduct? Or a drop ball with a card also possible?
     
  21. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    Re: more than I thought in here

    I would hope they carry their whistle on them at all times when reffing, whether running a line or not! You never know when it might be needed.



    Nothing in the LOTG mandates positioning by the referee, and so although this situation is risky there is nothing wrong. So long as the CR still could blow the whistle upon the flagging of the AR, he can fulfil his duties (just not very well). In this case the CR is not really incapacitated, it is just better for someone else to take over.



    Agreed on the first part. If the referee just tweaks a knee or ankle or something and can't run for the rest of the match, he can still do enough until the next stoppage and would be better to not interfere with the game. However, if the referee suffers from a stroke or heart attack or other debilitating illness, I think it would be best to have play stop immediately -- indicated by the backup referee blowing his whistle. It may take a few moments to recognize the CR is in real trouble, but in such instances he will need immediate medical attention on the field anyway so the game will come to a halt nonetheless.



    The goal would still stand as play was not stopped by the referee, and the ball did not go into touch. As mentioned before, a stumble or minor tweak does not mean the referee is incapacitated (basically the same as being unconcious). So long as the referee can still blow the whistle at the flagging of the AR that is really all that is required until the attack is dead.

    The only timeframe the LOTG mention in respects to calling a foul is that it cannot be called once the game is restarted. Here I think we have to bend the LOTG slightly to preserve the spirit of the game. Obviously the game cannot continue without a referee, but I personally feel that should not nullify everything that occurs after the moment the CR becomes incapacitated but before the game is stopped. Afterall, a team could score a valid goal only to have everybody realize the CR collapsed on the other side of the field. I would say, let the goal the stand and restart with a kickoff after attending to the CR.

    I would apply the same reasoning to the case of a brutal foul and misconduct. The backup referee, upon seeing the foul and realizing the current CR is down and out, should blow his whistle to stop play for the infringement, exercising his new powers under Law 5. The previous CR should be treated as necessary, and then the new CR would caution and/or send-off as necessary, and the game would be restarted with a DFK.
     
  22. Tame Lion

    Tame Lion New Member

    Oct 10, 2002
    Southern California
    Re: more than I thought in here

    I think that MUST stop is not the right question; SHOULD stop is. We stop play for a seriously injured player because we cannot say that it is not a life-or-death situation. It is no different with the referee. If the backup referee perceives a serious (incapacitating) injury, play should stop immediately! The backup referee (or the CR if he is able) can sort out whatever reports he has from the other officials.

    Not mentioned in this thread is the case of a seriously injured AR. I think that the reasoning for stopping play for a seriously injured AR is no different. But the criterion will be different since the CR, who should devote [nearly] undivided attention to play, cannot reasonably give a lot of attention to such a stop-play decision and should err on the side of safety.
     

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