Yes and these are all valid points. My point was that the situation my son was in 15 years ago was remarkably similar to the situation @NewDadaCoach 's kid is in right now. A couple of two hour practices for THAT kind of team, at that age, can be a lot of fun. And playing the occasional multi-game tournament on weekends, at that age, and again--for THAT kind of team--is different than for the norm. So you're not wrong and again going forward, once his kid is on a real travel team I would hope they would 'settle down' and follow best practices. That is driven in no small part by the role that youth soccer often plays as a "starter sport". Kids will start to specialize in their teens, and the sport that so many of them started with will be the one they leave and don't come back to. Saw that a LOT when my son was in Middle School and even to a lesser degree in High School. It's the kids who quit playing sports, period, who worry me. The ones who quit soccer so they can focus on football or baseball or lacrosse or whatever weren't pushed out, they were pulled out. Again, this is an 'all-star" situation where you've got a self-selected group of kids who are too young for travel but clearly both really like playing together. It's the exception to the rule. Once they're U9 they can settle down and pace themselves better.
I'm not really sure why there is a "you" in here as it is not my data/facts. Everything I presented is factual and studied by groups who study youth sports - not just youth soccer. Again, anecdotal evidence can be brought to the table all day long. These studies go on for years and it's always the same. Especially considering all are saying that youth soccer has LOST nearly 500,000 players in the last 5 years. We don't know who will fall into that category, and who won't (like your son). The best we can hope for is to provide the best information possible so that we are doing what is best for the sport AND kids. No, it is the norm. Youth sports is a $19 billion industry. Estimated to climb to $77+ billion by 2026. These multi-game tournaments are a large reason for that. Big entry tournaments. Stay-to-play tournaments. Travel all over the country tournaments. It's all lumped in there and it's perverted youth soccer drastically, even in the last 5 years. All youth sports are "starter" sports. Everyone wants to "get the kids before another sport does." That's why we see tackle football with full pads for kindergartners now when it used to be they didn't do that until 4th grade. That's also why we see all sports operating outside of their "traditional" sports seasons. Parents want to get their kids involved in activities too. So, they see where and what is available. I had my kids in gymnastics, know what was going on when entry-level gymnastics was? Competitive. Guess what all those little kids wanted to see and do? What the competitive gymnasts were doing. Again, all sports have a problem with losing kids. But, the difference is all sports outside of soccer have had positive growths in their youth numbers in the last 10+ years. This is an issue with soccer. There is no true data to say, "X-amount of kids quit soccer and went to football/baseball/lacrosse" so that is a non-factor in the argument. It happens. Kids leave other sports for other sports. The issue is soccer. The issue is kids leave it. The issue is kids leave it and don't return. Heck, kids quit soccer in a shorter time of participation than other sports too. At some point, it must be looked at on why this happens in soccer instead of "blaming" other sports. There are no exceptions to the rule. Because the numbers do not lie. While it may be good at U9, U11, etc. they may quit at U13. That's the issue. Parents, players, and clubs truly don't understand the "pace themselves better" mentality. If they did, would we have such a dropout issue in all of youth sports? No.
FWIW, my son's U16 team practices for 90 minutes three times a week. I watched the first practice I've watched in a long time last week (out-of-town practice too far from home to leave and a unique field setup where parents could easily watch without being "extra," as my son likes to remind me that I am). It was crisp, near-constant movement and included every bit as much as I remember 2-hour practices covering when I last watched at maybe U13. Granted, the coaches who run these (multiple teams together for this one across two age groups) make their living coaching soccer across various levels. As a dad coaching younger kids I wasn't capable of doing what they're doing.
This was a big factor when I was contemplating signing DS up for comp soccer. I knew that if he got along with the kids he'd love it and vice versa. Luckily all the kids get along. And then with all the other teams (various age groups and stuff) it's like a big soccer campus full of kids. It's great to see and hear all the fun they have.
The 2 hours... you're probably visualizing a drill sergeant running them into the ground for 2 hours straight. It's not that hard core. At least not with this coach. They mix it up with a variety of drills/scrimmages. 7 yr olds are built to run around. Its fun and healthy. Often after practice kids are still kicking around until the parents demand "we have to go!". The 4 games in a weekend is a lot but it seems rare. It has only happened for us when there was a tournament - if you win the first 3 games you play in the 4th (the final), so most teams just played 3 games. He can quit soccer and that'd be fine. He can do any activity he wants. I doubt any of these kids are forced into it. I think they all love soccer!
I will add... there does seem to be a high volume of games played right now (ie in the fall season)... it will slow down in the winter/spring. So it's not like they go at this high tempo for 12 months straight.
That's what it sounded like to me--this is like a stopgap year for your son and other U8 players who are ready for the next step a year early. And man, that year was a great transition for my son. They just played SO. MUCH. SOCCER. Besides their regular rec league games, they signed up for scrimmages against other local teams, played indoor in the winter and nonstop tourneys in the Summer, and practiced at least twice a week--the "practices" being either 4v4 scrimmages amongst themselves, or against one of the older teams in the club. He later went on to mostly disparage club soccer and American coaching in general, but man he LOVED those few seasons with that "all-star" team and I think it fueled quite a bit of the love of the game that carried him through a lot of not-so-great experiences afterwards. I would add--I do hope that this IS a transition for your son...a lot of the advice and criticism you've been getting is certainly not wrong in the big picture. You really don't want him playing and practicing this much long term. It's a cliche but it's true--this is a marathon, not a sprint, so pace yourself! It seems counter-intuitive, but once your son gets a little older and a little more serious, he'll need to play and practice LESS not more. Right now, he's a kid running around having a blast. Once the competition catches up, and once he's a little older, it can't help but become a bit of a grind even under the best of circumstances. He'll be better off if you pull back sooner rather than later. Just my two cents.
That's the other thing--are practices hard work, or are they fun? I'd argue that at this age, it should mostly be fun. More scrimmages, fewer drills. Let 'em play.
This is good. Exactly where it probably needs to be. For reference: U12 - 75 minutes U14+ - 75-90 minutes It is possible to share data/information that has been researched and documented for decades without it being "mine." Either way, it is always interesting for someone to argue verified data with anecdotal scenarios. There are always outliers. That's not the point. No, we know what 2 hours is. It's overkill and unnecessary, especially for U8. What you just explained means they can do essentially the same work in half the time probably and it's better for everyone involved. It's called economical training.
Yeah it's a balance. I agree, at the younger ages, few drills. I think our coach is really good with kids. He has the patience and prods in that way that is not too coddling yet not too harsh/direct. He has kids himself and I get the sense that he's learned a lot about child development from raising his own kids.
It is also possible that somebody posting on a message board in between routine tasks at work hastily wrote a response that wasn't meant to be parsed to death by somebody who takes himself and his pronouncements far too seriously. Kids playing lots of soccer for fun is bad now.
It's not overkill. It really depends on the situation. You can't just blanket say that a 7 yr old playing [insert activity] for 2 hours is overkill. Can they play on the jungle gym for 2 hours? Can they watch youtube for 2 hours? Can they ride their bike for 2 hours?Can they play with their dolls with their friends? If it's fun play and they are staying hydrated, etc, 2 hours is completely fine. Kids can play [insert activity] for much more than 2 hours in fact if they are having fun. Also you are lumping ALL KIDS into one bucket. Some kids are not athletic, some are. Kids have choices. They can play this or that, they can go home, they can take a nap. It depends on the kid. Some are better suited to rec and one 1-hour practice a week. Some are more advanced and rec would be a disservice.
Two hours of drills and whatnot would suck ALL the joy out of it for kids that age. For what it's worth, my son was playing professionally in Europe prior to COVID, and his practices never exceeded two hours, in fact they were usually shorter. But that's like REAL training, done at a high level of intensity and focus. Even professionals can't do that for extended periods of time. But when he was your son's age? Their practices usually lasted two hours, often ran late, and the parents had to drag the boys to the cars. And the reason is that it was "practice" in name only. It was really just an inter-squad scrimmage. A group of 7 & 8 year old boys who liked soccer, playing without break, no score keeping, no refs, no lengthy restarts, no sitting on the bench, not even really much coaching. Just lots and lots of soccer.
You do want to be careful and not get too caught up in the 'more advanced' talk. The competition will catch up. Any kid or team that's dominant at the U-Little stage is almost certainly a big fish in a small-ish pond. I believe you that your son and his teammates are having fun right now; my advice to you is to remember that they are, in fact, HAVING FUN. Once they move up to U9 and comp/travel soccer, it's going to be different. Practices will be more like work--drills, etc.--and less like pickup. The games will get more competitive; those tournaments will start to take a toll on their bodies by the time they're 10 or 11. The fun they're having now will help them deal with the grind to come--just recognize the grind when it gets here, and adjust your expectations accordingly.
Yeah, I think there should be some differentiation between what all is going on in "practice"... for example... if the coach is holding a white board and talking about strategy during "practice" obviously that is not physically straining the kids. Or if the kids spend 10 minutes juggling. Or shooting or doing PK's.... etc. I mean, so much can be considered "practice" and that stuff is important too but it's not going to cause a hamstring tear. I'm sure outside of practice your son in Europe I imagined spent some time just analyzing footage or watching other players or stuff like that which helped improve his soccer knowledge but wasn't strenuous.
Yeah, it's been my experience that a lot of front-end and back-end stuff in American youth soccer practices are taken up with stuff that in a more professional environment like an academy would not formally be part of "practice."
Our coach is a big fan of Pep Guardiola, and quoted something from Pep that was about physical body movements start in the mind. Basically, an idea that mind development is more important than physical in soccer. Not sure I agree 100% with that but I think there's something to it.
@ThePonchat You seem to think that I believe that I'm against unstructured play. Not true at all. I actually would prefer unstructured. But there just isn't much of it around here. If we could go down to the local park and hop into a pickup game daily, great. But not happening. There is a park where we have done that but it's kinda far, and with shorter days not possible. But I still want to get my kid back there, maybe in the spring. I never once claimed structured is better than unstructured. But we have rec or we have comp. And for my kid, been there done that with rec. It was time to move on. Nothing against rec. But for some kids it's just not enough. If the kids are enjoying it I don't see how you can say U8 comp is bad just because it's not "unstructured".
I will say, one downside of comp at young ages is that it's easy to lose perspective on what we're here for. It's not to win hardware. Parents can easily get too caught up in winning and losing. It's important to zoom out and regain proper perspective. Winning is fun but it's not important at this age. I think our parents have been pretty good about it, but man, you can hear the yells at these games coming from the parents and you want to say "yo, chill out! it's just a soccer game"
I never once said you were against unstructured play. I just seemingly stated that you claim it's not available, but almost refuse to accept any responsibility in that. Make it available. Hence, why I said..."if you build it, they will come." It's so much easier to wait around and have an excuse on why it doesn't exist.
Here's some interesting charts regarding participation in youth sports (going back to 2008): https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/youth-sports-facts/participation-rates
Pro academies in countries that are seen as very successful at developing future international-caliber players are taking in 7 year olds (see: Ajax). And they actually have to be good at 7, because they're there by invitation, not by their parents paying for them to get club practice or extra games on weekends to get touches. I'm not saying it's a healthy way to bring up kids, but that's the harsh reality of big-money sports.