Being considered the greatest player of all time in some debates? Is that all it takes nowadays. Please, let me start with ... Ruth DiMaggio Gehrig Mantle and that's just the Yankees. Then there's ... Mays Clemente Ted Williams .... I'd take George Brett and Robin Yount as well. Bonds is grossly overrated for having an incredible average this year with very good HR numbers and then having an asterisks record in HR last season in the age of juiced baseballs. more games per season and diluted pitching staffs. When he hits more HRs then a number of teams put together, like Ruth did, then we can start to talk.
In this era, more HRs than teams will never happen. In this expansion, watered down pitching, balls juiced?, Coors Field/Camden Yards era, even the frigging Devil Rays will hit 100 HRs. Greatest outfielder ever? How about throwing Hank Aaron into the discussion. Off the top of my head, I think he's first or second in career RBI too.
Well, since (over)expansion, you could claim that there are more marginal pitchers having longer careers, but someone could counter that claim by pointing to the rise of the relief pitcher, who brings a fresh arm to the late innings, when the old-timers were wearing down a bit. But unless Bonds plays a whole season without his elbow armor, his records are tainted. He can crowd the plate, and this allows him to take away the inside pitch, in a way that unpadded players can't (or won't). I would be impressed by his numbers if not for his armor.
It's just some peoples opinions dude, calm down. Oh and your boy Ruth, he played in a league with no blacks, that is a fact, one hasn't prove the juiced baseball theory yet. He is up there with each of those guys you mentioned easily. And most likely beyond most of them.
I don't think that it's just the HR record that's causing people to heap so much praise on Bonds. He's a complete hitter. He led majors in batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, and walks, while having a miniscule number of strikeouts.
His slugging and on-base percentages the past couple of seasons have not only been the best in baseball for 2001 and 2002, they've been amongst the best, if not the best, of all time.
Acording to your original post, you wouldn't count Barry Bonds in the top 9 players of all time. You are an idiot. You have no business talking basball. You obviously don't like the guy and that's interfering with the facts here. Bash him all you want, but stats don't lie. You are watching the greatest player you will ever see. It's a shame that your hatred for him blinds you of that fact. It's amazing how unqualified you are to even comment on the subject.
Youb aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you. He has over 600 home runs, he would have went over 500 easily even if he didn't start "shooting up" two years ago. The "shooting up" doesn't keep him from swinging and missing. The "shooting up" doesn't give him patience at the plate not to swing at bad pitches that many player do. Sh!t O'Deer, you mean you have no evidence at all that he is "shooting up" just like you had no evidence of the juiced ball? okay. nevermind then. You are clueless whenit comes to baseball, plain and simple.
Shooting up doesn't help your on-base percentage. Shooting up also doesn't help your slugging percentage appreciably. It also doesn't help your batting average, the number of walks that you get, or the number of times you strike out. He is quite simply, the greatest hitter of this generation, bar none.
Ruth DiMaggio Gehrig Mantle and that's just the Yankees. Then there's ... Mays Clemente Ted Williams How many of these guys did you get to watch live on TV or in person to help you make your judgement about Bonds not even in their league?
As astonishing as Bonds' physical transformation and recent surge in his stats are, I seriously doubt Bonds is on the 'roid. He's huge but doesn't have that Mr. Potato Head look and more telling, he has been extremely healthy - since he joined SF, he has played less than 140 games a season only twice. You can't use steroids and expect that kind of durability.
Brett is my al time favorite player. He and Yount were consumate professionals. Bonds is trying to act like a team player these days, but he still comes off as phony. Great player, absolutely. Best ever? Who knows? It would be impossible to say anyone is "the best". Different eras, different situations etc. How many homers would Ted Williams have hit if he hadn't served his country? Would Bonds have faired as well facing pitchers like Gibson, Larson, Ford etc? How would Mays have faired against the watered down pitching staffs of today?
Re: Re: What is this Barry Bonds nonsense? Wasn't there an article in Sports Illustrated not too long ago (a year or two ago) about Babe Ruth being black?
I thought that was one of the benefits of creatine and other such supplements. It helps ones muscles heal faster, and therefore one can work out harder and more often.
I've only been watching baseball since about '83...but Bonds is the best I've eve seen in my lifetime.
OK call me names, you are cool. Yes and I'm sure you know so much. Being on something will enhance his power, thus improving his HR numbers, and producing more hits, and stats, etc. Also, no one said he wouldn't have hit 500-600 HRs. He was a very good player before that. I'm not saying he wasn't good, just no where near the greatest. Sh!t, he isn't even the greatest player I've seen in my lifetime not to mention the old timers. He's no Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Mickey Mantle. It's ridiculous they mention him in the same sentence as "greatest". Very good? yes, greatest, not even close.
So name someone, anyone, who's been better over the past 10 years. To make it easy, I'll elminate a few names for you: Mark McGwire: peaked for a few years but was a poor average hitter, had some off years in Oakland and was ineffective over his last two seasons. Ken Griffey Jr.: was the better hitter during the mid-90's but has been the shell of his former self in Cincinnati. Bonds was a premier hitter before Junior came along, and still is, after Junior fell off. Tony Gwynn: the better contact hitter for sure, but Bonds hits for average AND power. Wade Boggs: ditto Ichiro: ditto, and not enough years in the Bigs. Sammy Sosa: too many strike outs, only emerged in the past 3-4 years as a premier hitter. Mike Piazza: the best hitting catcher ever, but not the all-around hitter Bonds is. Alex Rodriguez: might end up being better than Bonds, but not there yet. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, but if you can so easily dismiss the notion that Bonds is the best hitter of his generation, surely you can name someone who's heads and shoulders above him? Or maybe you don't know what you're talking about?
Since you avoided the question before so convieniently I'll ask you what someone else did earlier in the thread. When did you see any of those players you just mentioned live or on TV? How bout a few more questions. What was it that made those players so far above and beyond Bonds that you don't want him mentioned in the same sentance Can you name three players in this generation who is better than Bonds? Is it fair then to compare the best players of this generation to the one before? What is the "something" you refer to that he is on? Do you have any proof at all? If it was proven that he wasn't on "something" would it change your opinion? Can you even consider answering any of the questions people posed you in this thread, or have you already decided that he isn't anywhere to the greatest and reasonable discussion be damned?