What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Midfielder Jesse Saputo ?
     
  2. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, that's exactly who you think it is.
     
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  3. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    And why do you think he’s currently at Bologna? Hint: his dad owns the club.
     
  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    He's going to be part of the coaching team. He's in serious need to learn how to manage tournament football and players.

    We didn't need Kone against Qatar like we didn't need Davies to beat the US in Nations League
     
  6. Demo250

    Demo250 Member

    Mar 26, 2025
    Who are the best young prospects for Canada in the pipeline? Not aware of any names.
     
  7. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Our pyramid isn't set up in a way where we can make those predictions this early. David, Bombito, Kone etc..., pretty much came out of nowhere.

    In a few years, it will be easier to accurately name those prospects in advance like we easily can in hockey.

    CPL need to expand, D3 needs to expand and have their top tier professionalize and better integrate with CPL.
     
  8. Demo250

    Demo250 Member

    Mar 26, 2025
    I see.
     
  9. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Players in Canada pop out of no where due to happenstance sometimes in spite of the system, not because of it.
     
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  10. hobbes

    hobbes Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    regina, saskatchewan
    I don't think there are any obvious standouts at U20 level, but there's a really good generation of CBs in the 07s and particularly in the 08s. We'll have to see how they develop, but there's 8 or 9 who could be good professionals with the potential to be internationals. Plus a handful of promising 04s and 05s at CB. There's high hopes for Owen Goodman (No. 3 at the World Cup) at Crystal Palace and Grégoire Swiderski at Alaves in goal, but it's so hard to project keepers.

    There's some young-ish players like Jeevan Badwal (06), Adonija Ouanda (05), and Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty (04) who I think are close/ready for a senior cap.

    It's some of the really young players that are probably the most promising. I really like Van Parker (09), a dual-nat with Real Salt Lake who was playing up an age group at the last U17 World Cup. Keeper Samsy Keita (09) in Montreal is also well regarded, while Lucas Dawson (11) just turned 15, but is starting for Toronto FC in MLS Next Pro and not looking out of place at all. He's literally a kid, so you have to temper expectations because who knows, but the potential ceiling looks pretty good.

    And as always we'll see what happens with dual-nats. Rayan Elloumi (07) was in the Tunisia World Cup squad, but AFAIK is not cap-tied and could switch. Irish youth international Grady McDonnell (08) just transferred to Nottingham Forest. They're both born-and-raised in Canada. I don't see any reason why Seyi Fakiyesi (10) wouldn't play for the U.S., but Canada could really use a left back prospect coming through the system. Zach Zalewski (09) at Jagiellonia Bialystok in Poland has plenty of options too.

    As others noted... often guys come out of nowhere and burst onto the scene quickly and a player like Bombito that no one had heard of in 2022 is a starter in 2026. But that said, Alphonso Davies, Jonathan David and Luc de Fougerolles looked like they had huge potential well before they turned 18.
     
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  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #8536 Clint Eastwood, Jul 21, 2026
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2026
    Players pop out of nowhere for other nations too.

    Players develop at different rates and in different ways.
    Not everyone is a youth star.........................

    There are plenty of players in the USMNT right now that had zero or almost no youth caps.

    .....................Hell, our captain Tim Ream is one of them. 86 senior caps. No official caps at the youth levels.

    Youth national teams are a means to an end and not an end unto themselves.

    Yes, we can see some STARS before the age of 20. The US has a bunch of those prospects right now that have burst thru in MLS. [Prospect being a latin word for "hasn't really done squat yet."]

    None of them are playing for their U20 team at this event. Gozo of RSL, Peyton Miller of New England, Mehmeti and Hall of RBNY, Sullivan of Philly. The list goes on.

    So ultimately what does this U20 event actually mean in terms of future senior national team success? If the top European and domestic players aren't there? Not a lot. It's a measure of the depth of the program and how well the coaching staff expanded the net within the pool. But its not some predictor of whether Canada, the US, or Mexico will be the best senior national team 5 years from now.

    Its worth noting that when MLS changes its calendar to align with Europe, maybe the US/Canada will get more releases for late spring/summer CONCACAF events like this one.

    Saying all that, yes.............I totally agree with you all that Canada has underachieved at this level. Almost inexplicably so. They're ranked below Cuba and Guatemala at the U20 level in the CONCACAF rankings. Also, by the way, Costa Rica has been terrible at this level of late. Why? Who knows? They're ranked below the Dominican Republic.

    Mexico has won the U20 Championships 14 times. The USMNT is next with only 3
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It is true that youth tournaments aren't perfect predictors of senior success. Plenty of players develop late and every country has examples of internationals who barely featured at youth level.

    That said, Canada's situation is different because our professional development system is still in its infancy. The CPL is only seven years old. For the first time, we're sending multiple impactful professionals to this U20 tournament and the league's U21 minutes requirement is starting to create a genuine pathway.
    • Sergei Kozlovskiy (18) Atletico Ottawa
    • Zane Bruno (19) Forge FC
    • Emrick Forsing (18) Vancouver FC
    • Scholarship Jimoh (18) Inter Toronto
    Over time, more of these players will come from the CPL and the League1 system rather than relying almost entirely on academy players who barely have played in a pro league. Players like Alistair Johnston, Ismaël Koné, Moïse Bombito, Cyle Larin, Tajon Buchanan, and Dayne St. Clair all spent time in League1 or similar domestic pathways before reaching the national team.

    Ontario's and Quebec's League1 competitions are also multi-tier with promotion and relegation, so the infrastructure is still growing with the aim of fully Professionalizing the top tier. I'd actually like to see those leagues give even more meaningful minutes to younger players.

    We'll probably need another decade to build the kind of coherent development pyramid that produces consistent results. That process is already underway. The provincial League1 competitions are becoming the bridge between youth soccer and the CPL, similar to how the CHL feeds the NHL.

    The missing piece is a CPL2. That would create another professional tier, giving more young players a place to develop while allowing the CPL to place even greater emphasis on becoming an elite first division. The pyramid is still young, but it's finally starting to take shape.
     
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  13. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Zayne Bruno has played 1 minute for Forge in the CPL this year. Is that better for our program than other players who get regular minutes for their MLSNext teams?
     
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  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Judging a 19-year-old solely on this season's first-team minutes misses the bigger picture. Bruno earned this call-up based on his overall body of work.

    Last year he already made four CPL appearances, then played 35 matches on loan at Sigma to continue his development. This year he's competing for minutes on the defending CPL champions while still earning Canada U20 call-ups. Canada's coaches clearly value more than just first-team minutes—they've watched him in camps and international matches, where he's consistently performed.

    He helped Canada qualify by scoring a hat trick in Concacaf qualifying and was even invited into the senior national team's pre-World Cup training camp, clearly they see potential in him.

    Training every day and fighting for minutes in a championship-winning professional environment like Forge with defensive depth isn't the same as playing academy matches. (TFC found out this year). Coaches evaluate training quality, tactical understanding, physical development, and previous international performances—not just this year's appearance total.

    And it's a bit inconsistent to question Bruno over limited pro minutes when MLS academy players have been selected for Canada youth teams for years without any professional minutes at all. If the standard is "only current first-team minutes matter," it should apply equally to everyone, no?
     
  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  16. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL expansion announcements will be made within 2 months. CSME CEO had explained that the new deal with Canada Soccer was set to benefit the growth of the league tremendously.

    While previous commissioner Noonan had a more conservative approach by being adamant on soccer specific stadium before expanding, James Jonhston is willing to accommodate interested as long as there's plans for soccer specific venues to be built.

    Most likely candidates
    • Windsor
    • Kelowna
    • Quebec City
    • Winnipeg
     
  17. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  18. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    I hope they are not jumping the gun again like so many times in the past.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  19. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    This would be an interesting move.
     
  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    More youth players playing pro is a crucial element that had been missing - (c) Emrick Fotsing (Vancouver) scores with an assist from Sergei Kozlovskiy (Atletico Ottawa)
     
  24. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Does the fact that the CMNT staff took over coaching this team for the tournament have an effect in contrast to the usual national team lifers?
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Most likely, yes. I have my issues with Marsch but this is an upgrade to the usual coaching staff.

    Game is now over, 3-0 win
     

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