The quality of play was definitely higher in MLS. Just go look at some of players in MLS at the time. Many of them were key players for the USMNT a year later in the World Cup on a team that went to the quarterfinals. Will a single CPL player play in the World Cup next year? How many MLS games from 2001 would you say you watched?
As I remember MLS in 2002 featured 6 players who played in the quarter final of the World Cup that year.
A few players making the USMNT at that time doesn't mean that the entire league was at that level, let's be real. That was also at a time when Americans going to Europe wasn't a thing despite having the talent to do so - we know what's that like. At least they had a domestic league to play in. Granted I wasn't watching MLS in 2001, no one on this side of the border did but... You're talking to a former TFC season ticket holder from 2009 to 2014 since I lived in Liberty Village, the community that was the original foundation of their fanbase. On top of that, I watched most of Vancouver and Montreal games once they joined the league...as I mentioned before, I used to be a hardcore fan until 2014 where my interest crashed and shifted. All that to say, I've watched hundreds of games during that period and there's no convincing me that the league was better in 2001 over the 2009-2012 era. As for the comparison with CPL, despite trying to be a parity league - it's a 2 tier league where Forge and Cavalry are ahead of the rest. They play better football than the era I'm referring too while the bottom like Valour, Vancouver or Halifax at time play similar to 2008 TFC did. That also shows that you guys don't watch the Canadian Championship since you should know that It's now a 2-leg tournament and neither of the 3 MLS teams can afford to put B teams against Forge or Cavalry. Montreal was flat out outclassed by Forge over 2 legs, TFC and Vancouver advanced against Forge and Cavalry on the away goal rule. Can't convince me tha somehow, 2001 MLS clubs were stronger. Agree to disagree though
Ok but Costa Rica reached the quarterfinals of the World Cup in 2014 with most of their players being from the Costa Rica league and yet... people could even entertained the idea on this forum that Costa Rica was #2 in CONCACAF at any point...let alone that this should also mean that the Costa Rica league was stronger than MLS at any point. You guys would be so quick to point out that making such a correlation would be borderline insane yet...You're making that same stretch here. Interesting...
A couple of cup games aren't reflective of the relative strengths of the league otherwise Bristol City would have proven the Championship is better than the Premier League last season. There were twitterers crowing about USL catching up with MLS last season because Indy Eleven beat Atlanta. It was nonsense. Montreal and Vancouver fielded weakened teams and only threw on the stars late in the game. Also I remember TSS drew at Pacific and CS St Laurent won on penalties at Halifax. So based on that logic Ligue 1 QC is as good as MLS. I didn't watch MLS in 2002 but it featured some very good players mixed in with the humdrum including Landon Donovan, Cobi Jones, Alexi Lalas, John Spencer, Dwayne De Rosario, Tim Howard, Carlos Ruiz, Taylor Twellman, Brian McBride, Tony Meola and Jaime Moreno. Most of those had played at, or went on to play at a higher level.
Yes except the only good players in MLS in 2001 weren’t just USMNT players. CPL is also much more of a developmental league and skews younger which was very much not true of MLS during that period. MLS has obviously improved since then but having watched CPL games and teams and having watched MLS back then I don’t think there’s any comparison in terms of which had a higher level of play. Which isn’t surprising given that in real dollars the MLS salary cap in 2001 was more than double what CPL is currently. And once you adjust for 23 years of inflation the difference is more stark.
Of course my assessment is not solely based on our domestic cup but on a large number of games played in the league and in CONCACAF by CPL sides vs the large sample of games I saw in MLS in the 2009-2014 era.
You're still using quantitative and qualitative data over seeing both with a large enough sample with your own eyes. Salary cap isn't a great example to use to make your argument. All I'm saying is watch more games and try to compare with games that were played back then or as far back you can go. You're reasoning make sense but if you haven't watched enough games - how would you know? I thought the Costa Rica run in the 2014 WC kind of made my point that you can't just use this logic on everything
That alone tells me you either haven't watched enough or you just have a biais against it . I don't think USL League One club are that much better than top League 1 Canada clubs
CPL is six years old already? I remember that one troll around here claimed it would surpass MLS in five years.
Didn’t say it was you, why so defensive lol? Some guy with a Cosmos avatar who popped up sporadically doing the “everything about MLS sucks” routine.
If MLS did let go of their gimmicky roster rules, they'd be legit contenders for top 15 league with a cap high enough. Those rules in my opinion are holding you back. Change of schedule to Fall-Spring is a good idea, hoping this could league to the return of a "proper champions league" If those 2 above are done, then I think MLS goes to the next level and becomes untouchable in concacaf and could aspire to challenge Conmebol. There, I said something nice about the league but I still maintain it shouldn't have clubs in Canada
By literally every objective measure out there, they are a Top 15 league already, as is. And I mean ways people measure quality of play, not revenue, etc. Brazil is probably the only better league in South America, and obviously LigaMX is right there in North. Payrolls have skyrocketed in the past 10 years, but thankfully, there's still some sense of parity to make the league more fun than "Oh, Bayern won again." The league tends to be underrated because people don't actually watch, and because people overrate other leagues by only really watching the best couple of teams.
The metric that matters to most fans is quality of play but you're not wrong about the rest Huh...would you look at that... Sounds famiiar from what was being discussed earlier?
I'm not wrong about quality of play. Look at any ranking of MLS on how good the teams are / quality of play with any data behind it, it's easily a Top 15 league. They don't have to do anything to be one; they are one.
You keep using data to back this up when you should be using large samples of actual games to make the comparison. Data is just one side of the puzzle, doesn't tells the overall picture. You watch Libertadores and I'm not convinced at all that an MLS team gets that far. I was in Puerto Vallarta when I watch Monterrey tear Miami apart to the (overraction) satisfaction of the crowd. Those gimmicky roster rules is what's holding the league back - get rid of them and the league will be able to build much deeper and balanced rosters putting them right up there. At the moment, it ain't it.
Yes, let's use your eyeballs over thousands of objective datapoints. Those systems are far from infalliable, but they "watch" every game and do it without bias such as you hating MLS. Either way, I am sure I watch more MLS and LigaMX than you. You can cite one game and I can cite a whole lot that went the other way. I watched Nashville, the definition of mediocre, beat that Monterey team in a semi. I watched Cincy absolutely trounce Chivas so badly they started buying American players. I watched SKC, who has been a disaster, beat them as well. I watched Seattle bury Tigres 4-0. And so on. They are pretty comparable leagues at this point. And both are Top 15 in the World.
Dude, no matter how good MLS actually is and I think it's good, you're totally overrating it. I ain't going to argue with your stats that have you so convince it's a top 15 when the majority on this planet who knows this sports inside out doesn't. I'm just another insignificant voice part of the mass majority who disagree with you but hey, stay in your bubble and believe what you want. Cheers!
I can't argue on logic and evidence so I will just repeat my opinion and pretend I am right! And then, even though I'm the one who can't consider evidence, I will say the other person is in a bubble and everyone agrees with me though I will also show no evidence of that! Your post is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going blah blah blah.
Dude, Fox sports shows CPL down here in the states. I watch it regularly as their games are usually on before the Saturday night MLS slate. I try to watch USL-C. CPL is a growing league. Overall, I'd say Forge and Cavalry are top half USL-C level. The rest? Somewhere around the top of USL L1, and the bottom of USL-C??? IMO, outside of Cavalry and Forge, the soccer just isn't all that entertaining. There's a lack of attacking players and finishers in the league. That said, the league is 6 years old, and it survived Covid. The player salaries are low, not unlike the early years of MLS. Slow and steady growth is the name of the game. It's not going to be microwaved into a top league. That's not how sports work. It'll be interesting to see where the CPL is at when it hits 10 seasons. You left some names off of the 2001 league season list: Carlos Valderrama Raul Diaz Arce John Harkes Marcelo Balboa Mauricio Cienfuegos Bobby Convey Marco Etcheverry Brian McBride Piotr Nowak Oscar Pareja Eddie Pope Preki Tab Ramos Diego Serna Hristo Stoichov https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/2001/stats/2001-Major-League-Soccer-Stats
Like I said, believe whatever you want to believe. Most of the football world disagree with you. Agree to disagree