What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There's this narrative amongst fans about a Berhalter versus Marsch feud......................but I wonder how real that is behind the scenes.

    Marsch wanted the USMNT job it seems. His beef should be with the USSF leadership then and not Berhalter.

    Yes, there was a little back and forth in the media about Reyna being picked for the Nations League. Really much ado about nothing. Marsch questioned Gio's inclusion. After Gio was great in the final, Berhalter shot back. Then Marsch and Tony Meola acted shocked, SHOCKED I say, that Gregg called them out on it.

    I'm sure if Marsch is asked about it, he'll say "my focus is on Canada and not the USMNT."

    Cuz his first three games are Holland, France, and Argentina.

    If he's not careful, that could be a combined score of 15-0 in his first three games.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the reason people have mentioned it is specifically there has been some reporting the two don’t have the best relationship.
     
  3. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I would imagine there was no relationship, good or bad, then Marsch acted like an analyst should, giving takes, right or wrong, and then Berhalter indirectly or directly called them out a bit? I also dgaf, and I doubt either of them do, but it will be built up for whatever reason. Just doesn't matter to me. Neither of them were guys I wanted for HC, so it seems of course they were the only two serious candidates.
     
  4. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Since Marsch waited this long I thought he might wait until after the Copa to see if the U.S. flops. But I guess the money and security with Canada were enough to finally step back in.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    This is exactly what I think happened. it didn't really mean a thing.

    People really WANT there to be a feud. Particularly Berhater haters..........................
     
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  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Managers aren't automatically best friends just because they worked in the same league.
    Screenshot_20240515_133930_Gallery.jpg
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Not being friends is different than a "feud."

    Of course coaches are ultra-competitive.
     
  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5369570/2024/03/26/gregg-berhalter-jesse-marsch-usmnt/

    Those familiar with the dynamic between Marsch and Berhalter, who did not wish to be identified to protect their positions within the game, described it as one with little love lost. One termed it “ultra-competitive”.
     
  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he does well with Canada he’s also set up well to be the US coach for the 2030 cycle (which is supposedly a job he’s always wanted).

    It’s also a low bar for success given Canada has never won a game in the World Cup and they are going to be seeded plus playing at home.

    They may also get a quarterfinal matchup against Mexico in the Copa America which is very winnable for them.
     
  10. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :devilish: Why?!?!?!?!?! :thumbsdown:
     
  12. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll take "The CSA is broke AF" for $1000 Alex.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Broke AF with a guaranteed Copa America and World Cup place, though. :)
    Berths you don't even have to earn yourself.

    He just can't have an epic disaster as a start.

    And based on their schedule, that could happen.

    They'd be favored to lose their first 6 games.

    Maybe they'll pull something out against Chile, who aren't in great form.

    But anyway, based on that schedule of starting out against Holland, France, and Argentina.....................the hot seat could get hot quickly.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At Leeds at least I did think his style worked better against the bigger teams (whereas I think they struggled more against teams who were closer in ability where they had to carry play more). Which I think will suit him well at Canada (though I’m not putting any stock in terms of what happens with the friendlies regardless of the results).
     
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  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're a glass half empty kinda person. Marsch has nothing to lose taking this job. Most outsiders are expecting failure with that opening run of games. Also, what exactly ARE the expectations for Marsch? I highly doubt that any smart observer of the game would be surprised if Canada loses against Holland, France and Argentina..... The US losing to all three of those opponents wouldn't be a surprise, and quite frankly would be the expected result.

    He's in a no lose situation. Anything other than losing the first 6 games will be looked at as exceeding expectations. Sure the diehard Canadian National Team fans have unrealistic expectations, but you're never going to please the diehards. Realistically if they win one and draw one of his first 6 games in charge, as well as be competitive in the other 4 games (in terms of performance) that'll be a good foundation to build off of heading into prep for the World Cup.

    Folks have to be honest with themselves here. Who has Canada played since Qatar? A fairly pedestrian Mexican team, and a US team that lacks goal scorers and has questions at the back? Canada is only going to improve by playing the heavyweights of international soccer.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it depends what the market perception of Marsch is. I think he was clearly holding off on a taking a job because he knows his reputation was teetering on the edge with European clubs. If he wasn't getting good offers, then yes, there's nothing to lose here.

    If he was still getting interest at the higher levels of Europe, then yes, a failure here basically banishes him back to North America or a Red Bull pity job.

    The bigger problem is that I don't know that overperformance here gets him much different.

    The other big problem is that this would not shock me if this killed any chance of him coaching the USMNT ever, either already by virtue of this decision or by the time he's done. He's ultracompetitive and has a big mouth; he's going to say something he can't take back, I'd bet.

    I think people underestimate the number of people at US Soccer who couldn't even imagine coaching or working for a different Fed. Crocker will help ... but I bet there's a lot of ... distaste ... over this move.

    A confederation rival? Sure, it's not Mexico, but it's the next worst.
     
  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can’t imagine there’s that much distaste from USSF over this move. Canada isn’t really a rival for us. Whatever issues exist between him and Berhalter don’t seem like they extend beyond that.

    And if he does well with Canada it definitely helps in terms of coaching the US next cycle.

    There was a time when people thought Jim Harbaugh would never be the coach at Michigan because of comments he made at Stanford that set people off. Obviously people got over that but other than if he fails miserably I don’t see taking the Canada job as something that makes it so Marsch cant take the USMNT job down the line.
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That's where I think you are wrong. USSF is full of a ton of people who have taken less pay or volunteered their time for US Soccer. There's a reason lack of commitment or effort is seen so egregiously. There's going to be a substantial subsection there that isn't happy about this. Just listen to the older players talk about playing for the national team.

    The one thing he'd have in his favor is that Crocker isn't one of those people. But that's before we factor in Marsch's mouth.

    He's already come out and basically bashed Crocker for his handling -- and given some of the language, I'm not even sure it's earned. But this won't be the end. He's the same kind of red ass that Herdman was -- he is absolutely going to talk as much shit as he can.

    It won't stop. We see he can't help himself at all.
     
  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the thing is if he does well with Canada and exceeds expectations he’s going to be one of the top candidates available next cycle (and I’m assuming Berhalter will move on even if we do great in the World Cup).

    We’re not going to have a great pool of options as it is and he’d be an internationally proven manager who has coached in two top 5 leagues and who wants the job. It’s going to be hard for us to find many coaches with a better resume than that (unless our friends at MLS are willing to kick in for an increased salary pool).
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think economic dynamics are going to be a bit different post-Copa and post-World Cup. I don't know that we will be particularly salary constrained. While we aren't getting Pep at $20M or something, we won't have to settle, I don't think.

    I also think that Crocker was heavily likely to go American given the timing of his hiring this cycle, but I don't know that that will be as strong in several year.

    And I also think that Marsch will not only have to prove to be successful, but that his style of play can adapt. That's the big question on Marsch. It would be a massive step back to go back to Marsch ball with the rising player pool we have.

    But even after that ... there's going to be a bunch of people on the board who will remember Marsch's comments. Crocker might not be around, but organizations like this have super long memories. And those people tend to lead the search. It really only takes one to block it.

    And these are people who couldn't imagine playing or working for another nation in a lot of cases.

    As an aside, the two Top 5 leagues does nothing for me as he failed fairly badly in them. We can get lots of guys who can't coach effectively at the top level. If you ask a Salzburg fan, the coaches before and after him performed better there; there was a clear issue in Leipzig. And while I think he got something of a raw deal at Leeds ... The guy was a Red Bull guy and that's why he got those chances. If he had performed the same in MLS with another org, people are simply calling him just an MLS coach.

    I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he'd be very strong motivationally. Players, journalists and just about everyone criticized his tactical acumen at his stops, and he admits to being wildly inflexible with a very talented Leipzig team.

    Maybe if he kills it with Canada, but I think he's adding to very real red flags with his mouth.
     
  22. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "My respect for US Soccer is big, but I went through a process with them, right? And I don't... I'm not gonna go into it, but I wasn't treated very well in the process. And so whatever, man, that's in the past now...and now I'm fully focused...I was...the minute it was done I was like 'Okay, I'm moving forward and I'm gonna figure out what's right for me.' And that...and again, it motivated me again to find the right people."

    Transcribed as best as I could from Jesse's comments on Call It What You Want podcast with Charlie Davies and Jimmy Conrad.
     
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  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. His beef seems to be with the USSF and Crocker. Not with Berhalter.

    From some other reporting, it sounds like the players wanted Berhalter back. That also has to mean something.

    Coaches are ultra-competitive, though. I'm sure Marsch would love to stick it to the USSF and Berhalter.

    But really? He needs to focus 100% on Canada.
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any windfall should be set aside to fight Jeffrey Kessler's next anti-trust lawsuit.
     
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  25. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know they will have some windfall from the Copa though much less than 2016. The World Cup I’m less sure as I believe FIFA is taking a greater share of the money than they typically case. I imagine some of these funds are earmarked for the new national training center.


    I think it’s always going to be hard to attract a coach who isn’t American given that national team jobs aren’t the most attractive generally. It doesn’t mean it’s not possible but the pool isn’t going to be the greatest. The flip side is our own poor of domestic coaches will continue to improve.

    I agree with this and I preferred Berhalter to Marsch for this cycle. The coach I personally have my eye for next cycle is Nancy but I think it’s unclear if he’ll be interested and he may have moved on to Europe by then.

    I don’t know if that’s true about the board. There was a dissenting voice about being back Berhalter but they completely pushed it through regardless. Even the board won’t be completely the same come 2030.

    The three people that matter are Crocker, Batson, and Cone with Crocker being the main person driving the process. Oneywu has some involvement too. None of them strike as the type to hold a grudge come 2030 but it’s also true none of them may even still be with USSF come 2030.

    I think it’s relevant having coached in a top 5 league and the experience he was able to get there coaching against some of the elite coaches like Pep and Klopp. And the tactical level internally is just lower than what you see in the EPL and Bundesliga. It’s high level experience you can’t replicate in MLS.

    It’s like being the coach at Michigan versus being the coach at Eastern Michigan. There is a certain experience that you get from coaching at the highest levels even if you aren’t as successful at them.

    I do think Leipzig was a bad fit from the start. He didn’t do great there but they had completely moved away from the high pressing style and the players weren’t happy he wanted to go back. Similarly he was a bit unlucky at Leeds in that the underlying performance was much better than the actual results. And for a team that wasn’t that great and didn’t address the fact that they had terrible centerbacks.

    That’s not to say he didn’t make mistakes at both situations but there were also extenuating circumstances. The interesting thing for me is going to be how much did he learn from each experience and has he made an effort to assess some of his blind spots.

    I do think it matters less internationally though and he’s a good fit for Canada’s pool. And he has some experience as an assistant internationally so maybe there won’t be the learning curve of trying to coach it like a club side.

    I’m not saying he’d be my top candidate, but if he kills it with Canada he’s going to be on the top of the list come next cycle.

    But as I said Nancy is who I have my eye on in terms of how he continues to progress. But also Pellegrino Matarazzo, Cherundolo, and some of the other up and coming MLS coaches. And I’d certainly support asking some international options about their interest as the worst that can happen is they say no or have salary demands that are too much.
     
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